PSA: Reverb G2 small sweet spots, observations and solutions

Yeah, I think Samsung is just covering their bases with the patents as basically all do. I don’t see anything anytime soon that’s PCVR relwted. My best guess is they may be collaborating with Sony on PSVR2 and end up with a mobile AiO like the Quest 2 themselves.

What’s more interesting I think is a) their new layered OLEDs as well as b) Panasonic’s new screens on their prototype (2.6k 2.8" HDR ready micro oled panels).

Varjo and Xtal also showing some life going away from fresnel lenses. Varjo would actually be doable for ultra-enthusiasts at roughly 3k if it weren’t for their 800$ yearly subscription fee and Xtal 8k with a matching price of 8k$ is just out of reach for any non-professionals. Both (actually also the G2 and Pimax) are bottlenecked by DP1.4a bandwidth which leads me to probably the next one:
Index 2.0 - I don’t see that happening anytime soon. Best hope is that the Reverb G2 was a field test for the acceptance of it’s hardware hunger with it’s 2k displays and how low people would go as far as acceptance for ■■■■■■ lenses… still can’t believe they proudly put their name on helping with that lens design… but with the Index having set new standards for high refreshrate I don’t think we’ll see anything before DP1.5/DP2.0 gets introduced or HDMI 2.1 becomes a standard rather than exception. Just a gut feeling, but they may just wait on the arrival of Lovelace/Hopper to show movement…

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Some of this stuff is undoubtedly “psychoperceptual.” I’m a hearing aid user and frequent a hearing aid forum discussing the latest HA audio tech. For the very same physical hearing aid, two people can have opposite opinions: “Best sound I’ve ever heard and I’ve been wearing HA’s for the last 20 years. Tried all brands. This is the best!” vs. “This HA model is TERRIBLE. It sounds tinny and there is no bass. I hate the sound of my own voice!”, etc., etc. Not to dismiss that there aren’t really problems with VR in MSFS 2020 and there is a long way to go before one gets 4K VR at 60 fps+ in HDR, etc. But I think part of the problem is akin to “Do we all see the same color that we call red?!”, etc.

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Yes I would second this. However HP are there own worst enemy. Pulling the headset over the cranium gives me great clarify and comfort, but…

You need to use even more of the side straps - so if you have a big head that’s fine but for me it’s borderline - just about tight enough but I can imagine for anybody with a smaller head the headset isn’t going to fit the way it was intended, forget children using this thing!

People will be shortening the top strap because they can’t get enough purchase on the side straps. Why HP have given so little margin here is just silly. And then there’s the curvature of the front padding which is excessively prenounced - which directly conflicts with the size of the straps!

So you need a big head with a round face, did they test this on the Minions!

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Agreed, I have ordered a new face gasket, The FOV mod, I’ll receive it Saturday. I think getting my eyes closer to the lens will fix clarity issues for me.

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Please let us know how it goes. I’m very curious.

I can tell you that removing the face gasket and using foam padding worked for me. It made a world of difference. It feels a lot less claustrophobic for one. There is also something with the tilt of the headset that’s wrong for me due to oversized butt cheek I have on my face. With the factory face gasket I can’t tilt it down the way it should be for my vision.

I tried pulling the side strap as far as I could to the point of popping my eyeballs, but that’s just unconfortable.

I decided to go for the modified face gasket because eventhough the foam mod thingy kind of works, I need an even and solid surface to put the pad on. With the foam mod, sometimes one of my eyes gets closer to the lens than the other, which creates different issues.

Voila, sorry it was long.

Best,

S.

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I received it today, still waiting to receive some Velcro and magnets.

It’s great, I’m happy with it, I need to find a better pad than the VR cover thing, I really don’t like this fake leather material.

Your eyes would be .1/2" closer to the screens. Forget about it if you wear glasses.

The FOV is improved for me and so is the sweet spot. The big difference I found is on the vertical FOV rather than the horizontal, eventhough there is a gain here as well.

I have it set so the curve of the gasket allows me to see almost right at the edge of the screens and it feels better. I can feel that my eyes are not struggling as much, so it works for me.

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I got my G2 today and in spite of my previous “findings” that with kiddie VR smartphone headsets that I needed about +2 diopter correction because of my strong presbyopia, with the G2 I can see pretty well with no diopter correction, at least in the sweet spot. I’ll try +0.5 and +1.0 diopter corrections but I think I’ll need little or no + diopter help with the G2. So perhaps VR-Optician’s advice that they usually go with just the far distance correction, quoted in a post above, is closest to the mark for the G2.

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@AIRBORNE4795, where did you order that from? I’m thinking something like that will help me, too. Also, you mentioned waiting on velcro and magnets, did the facemask (or whatever it’s called) thingy come with or were they a separate order? And how did you attach it without those?

Sorry for playing 40 questions, but like I said, I think that will help me, and if I’m going to spend money on it, I want to do it the right way.

Thanks!

Here:

You only get the gasket structure. Rest is DIY.

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@AIRBORNE4795, thanks for that. I’ve actually seen a couple of people talking about something similar on YouTube, but I think I’d rather wait until something more turnkey is available than starting with the DIY stuff.

But I did bookmark it, just in case nobody starts making more turnkey stuff.

That seems like a lot for a 3D printed piece of plastic, but I don’t own a 3D printer and have no idea what’s involved in making one work. But I know I’m not gonna go get one just in the event I want to put something like this together, so it’s good to have that option available.

It’s not cheap, I agree. This one is well printed and cleaned up at least. I that case I prefer the DIY option since it will allow me to get exactly what I want for my face :slight_smile:

Depending on where you live in the world you can have the model printed closer from home, there are a few options and different 3D models available.

Best

S.

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@AIRBORNE4795 Thank you for sharing your experience with the gasket.

It looks like the source model is this one: HP Reverb G2 face gasket by Jewcookie - Thingiverse

I don’t know much about the 3D printing business and I’m wondering why purchasing the print from this outlet in particular? (the price seems higher than what others are usually reporting for printing the Jewcookie gasket)

@JALxml I can also see clearly without corrections but I get eye strain quite quickly and I can see red and blue lines separating from white lines starting at about 60% off the center. Wearing the +1 eliminates nearly all RB de-doubling and cures eye strain for me. Something maybe a factor: I’ve received my G2 in the first batches and there might still be the possibility this one has a manufacturing defect (calibration, lenses alignment etc…)

It was more convenient for me, we are neighbors and I prefer to make the locals work nowadays :slight_smile:

But yes, there are many options available as I mentionned earlier.

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Hi, CptLucky8. I was looking at your glasses picture PSA: Reverb G2 small sweet spots, observations and solutions - #22 by CptLucky8 and reading the text with it and it seems those glasses have “FG” on the nosepads - so I’m presuming that they’re “Foster Grant’s,” too, like some of the rest of your reading glasses. Is there a model number or name on the inside or outside of either temple (the frame part that goes to your ear). I looked on the Foster Grant website but haven’t been able to find the equivalent yet. Whatever name or model number is on your glasses’ temples would allow the rest of us to do an Internet search to see what we could come up with.

Yes these are Foster Grant.

Alden Reading Glasses for Men | Foster Grant

R: 52 [] 19-140 PD58 5MM +1.00
L: MS0320 Alden BLK

NB: the [] is printed as a :white_square_button:

update: they do not offer +1.00 correction on the web site!?

update: reading the specs online this means the indication on the right is meaning:

52: Lens Width
19: Bridge Size
140: Temple Length

NB: the 3 values above are matching the ruler on my photo!

PD58: I suppose the glasses IPD is 58, I’m 64, but this shall be good when verging for reading and therefore begs the question when used into my headset.

5MM: I’m not sure but could be lens thickness

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Hold on with this, I’m trying another pair of glasses which are incredibly better, I’ll post more about this in a few.

Update:

I’ve now tried another model which is much more comfortable on the bridge for me (no pads pressing the nose):
Paolo Semi Rimless Reading Glasses for Men | Foster Grant

R: 52 [] 17-140 PD62MM +2.00
L: CT1110 Paolo BLK

I’ve also measured the FOV and all the other tests with:
Steam Workshop::ROV Test FOV & Resolution

I reach HFOV 98 (didn’t bother with VFOV) and all the panels are clear of any CA and other deformations. I can nearly read left to right on a 85 deg from center (albeit fuzzy a little bit toward the edges as expected but legible enough yet). I believe these have a lens IPD of 62 and since I’m 64 this might explain why they are better. (I never paid attention to these markings, thank you for asking!!)

These glasses are better then he previous ones in comfort and clarity to me and this again tells me the G2 optics are designed for wearing glasses for glass wearers.

When using the Frankenmask you’re only putting your eyes in a different focal point which is compensating but at the expense of creating more distortions. These distortions might not appear as pincushion or barrel, but as white lines dedoubling because of a 2nd factor playing here: the WMR anti-CA filter which is pre-distorting the RGB planes so that lenses refraction put them back together.

Please note if I rotate the headset something about maybe 2 or 3deg pressing on the nose and pulling out the forehead at the same time, and if I adjust the headset to put my eyes slightly above the G2 lens center (you can see where on the fresnel) and without wearing glasses, I can read a clear view without much eye effort but with yellow and blue fringes showing up around dark lines over white. I can reverse the angle and then put the eyes on the opposite offset vertically from the lenses centers and again I can see the same clear with fringes. If I put the eyes back over the fresnel centers, no matter the angle nose pressing or forehead pressing, the image is less sharp but there are no fringes.

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On batches vs. HP Reverb G2 quality, Sebastian of MRTV has a nice, limited-in-scope review comparing the quality of a review model received direct from HP (you’d think they’d be sure to send the very best unit) with a G2 randomly bought from Amazon-Spain. Sebastian uses the Steam Workshop ROV Test utilities you recommend, too. He concludes that both G2 have superb optical quality within the limits of VR headset clarity and discusses issues that can affect the size of the sweet spot, including head size and the possible need for the Frankenmod. Commenters on his YouTube post suggest what he really needs to do is to test G2 units from people who are complaining about sweet spot size and quality. Sebastian also says be sure to be running the latest Windows Updates in there has been a problem with chromatic aberration for WMR headsets and in his humble opinion the latest Window Update takes care of that for the G2, at least. Sorry if you’ve already covered this in other threads. I have a lot of reading to do! Sebastian also has a lot of good stuff on his site, as well.

Maybe I need to install SteamVR, etc. I haven’t been able to figure out how to download and run the ROV Test FOV & Resolution utility yet. I do have Steam and Steam FSX on my computer running fine.

Thank you for the link and info! I know his videos and as a matter of fact he his also active on the reddit HP reverb sub and there are some good comments there (but not as friendly as here!)

Once thing remains for sure: I get terrible eye strain with the G2 because I have to force as when I’m trying to read something closer, whereas I can play Alyx with the Index for hours and don’t feel any fatigue at all… Optics are really different between the two and the more I think about it the more it makes sense. For example see this comment from the HP guy behind the G2 tech:

kaiserkannon HP Employee 2 days ago

I love high fields of view! But why did we choose not to expand FOV is a great question.

At a basic level there are two ways to increase FOV assuming same technology is being used:

  1. increase panel and optics size (Index uses big lenses on big panels). This comes with the con of increased weight, size, and cost.
  2. increase optical power while keeping displays and optics the same size. this comes with the con of lowering optical performance.

At the end of the day we did not feel the tradeoffs were worth the increased FOV, and that with current technology we have found the right balance. In the future when new technology changes the tradeoff equations we will find a new balance.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/kxczef/hp_checking_in_here_to_answer_questions/gj9hnzp/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

In other words because the G2 is using smaller panels than the Index (regardless of the FOV question), they have to use optics with a higher power, which I understand as magnifying more and in this case, it might be the reason the facemask is more recessed than the G1 because otherwise it would be too much lens curvature and aberrations. Having said this I still don’t get with the G1 with the same panels didn’t cause me any eye strain but the G2 with the same panel size is causing it to me. Either I really have a G2 I have to RMA, or more likely given the number of people complaining, they changed the optics focal length to be shorter than G1/Index/Others because they’ve chosen a Valve lens which material is producing less artefact and CA but conversely is refracting less as well. I can’t help thinking they’ve cut some corners with this to the point I’m starting to regret having returned my G1 when they’ve announced the G2, even more so that the latest WMR is correcting the G1 CA…

In thinking about the post I made in another thread, I decided maybe I should give my prescription lenses with progressive bifocals another try, just concentrate on central vision and ignore any blurriness in the lower part of the screen caused by the progressives. In real life, the central optics in my glasses corrects my distance vision to about 20/15 and repairs mild astigmatism. And in learning to move my head to get the sharpest part of the image more or less centered, I may even be catching a little of the +OD progressive correction to help me see the sharpest. Even small text in MSFS now looks pretty readable to me through the G2.

A corollary thought is that folks who haven’t worn glasses for vanity or because of the expense (“my vision is not that bad”) might want to get their eyes checked and get prescriptive correction if needed to milk that extra little bit of sharpness out of their VR headset. After getting a new eye exam, I still plan to get lens inserts for my G2 if for no other reason that it’s a pain to don and remove the G2 wearing my glasses.