Quest 3 and MSFS - please make reports here

User Support Hub Virtual Reality (VR)
143

Hello, to give some information:
CPU: Ryzen 7-5800X
RAM: DDR4 32 GB
GPU: RTX 2080 super 8GB

Virtual desktop: H264+
72 FPS frame rate
Set to RTX 2070 in the settings (medium which corresponds to my 2080)
WIFI 5 - 1200 mbps (wifi 6 on my box)

Open XR toolkit:
On CAS
turbo ON
fixed foveated rendering: Preset
Mode: performance

MSFS parameters:
Ultra but modified, I lowered the terrain LOD to 150
The object Lod is 100

FPS in VR: 60-72
Latency: 60-70
Fluctuation in the FS process (close to 32ms)
Encoding = 6-9 ms
Network = 6-9 ms
GPU = 6-9ms

No stuttering, almost no jerks (fs still has difficulty loading cities in photogrammetry even though I have the fiber at max at home! microphones jerks if I shoot quickly, acrobatic style above New York… …)
The image is much clearer than with Oculus, and above all no blurred edges to gain possible fps, the entire image in the headset is clear and defined!

Very important ! Spacewarp activated automatically, thanks to this I actually double the original Fps, without I am at 30-40 fps, with it going up to 72! Some people would try to activate it all the time, but for me it’s a bug, it’s up to you to try.

I was with the oculus + debug tools + open xr toolkit combo: never exceeded 45 with jerks and stuttering.

Frankly, VD is well worth the detour, I tried to go back to oculus, it’s an unspeakable misery!

Good flight ! and happy holidays to all! :wink:

1 Like
144

Hi all, new here but loving the tips and tricks. Just bought a Metaquest 3 in the hope that it would run…

I have a (what I thought was a great) laptop running an RTX 3070…

Apart from a few glitches and with all the suggestions by peeps from here, I am now having the best flight experiences of my life!!

VR works great but I usually have to log out after each flight… as it doesn’t like doing it again but OMG it is amazing.

BTW I just plug and played with the MBacchio thing installed.

You don’t need a massive rig to enjoy - thats all im saying…!!

1 Like
145

Interesting new approach from a Japanese developer:

Direct link: ChromaTrack Overlay【Quest3/Pico4 + VD併用想定】 - Eureka Works - BOOTH

2 Likes
146

Does the Quest 3 have haptic feedback on the controllers while rotating knobs / dials?

147

No. The controllers do not work at all in the VR cockpit.

148

They work for me like beam pointers and I can interact with all cockpit controls just fine. I don’t use them that way but it does work so not sure what you mean?

EDIT TO ADD: I am using Virtual Desktop which has the Track Controllers option (ticked) so perhaps it’s that making it work differently?

1 Like
149

Ah, I didn’t notice the Track Controllers option. I didn’t use controllers with the G2 so I guess I just ignored that option when I set up the Quest 3.

1 Like
150

Understood, thanks!

There is no haptic feedback when using them though is there?

151

No I didn’t notice any. Of course they do have rumble, so I guess somehow it would be possible to get them to respond in some way via a plugin or so, but as I say I only use them to grudingly change settings in Virtual Desktop :smiley:

1 Like
152

OK, I jumped the gun and bought Quest 3. Coming from Reverb G2. I have RTX 4090 and 7950X3D with 64Gb of RAM and fast SSD. So as good as it gets. But I was never entirely happy with G2 performance.
I follow a few guides about setting up Quest 3 with Virtual Desktop, and it’s almost good but not quite there:

When I turn my head I have cockpit stutters. Otherwise it’s quite smooth. I use Godlike mode, tried 72Hz and 80Hz. ASW off and on, DX11 and 12. 120Mb bitrate on thje “Oculus 3” codec, throuh Wifi 6 router. I feel no latency, it seems very responsive, outside is smooth, but inside the cockpit is a bit jittery.
VDXR set to override system resolution at 3500x… Other settings in MSFS as they were before.

What am I doing wrong?

1 Like
153

I have the same issue and almost the same hardware (4080 instead of your 4090). I have tried all sorts of settings from all ends and all sides - it’s a minefield of layers of settings. I feel like I’m missing something deep down but sometimes it is totally rock solid in the cockpit too.

Biggest single thing I changed that was initially causing me grief was with Frame Generation ON in the PC graphics settings, it was causing awful constant doubled up everything (trees, buildings etc especially noticeable when looking out the side window at lower level flight). Turned that off and instantly things were so perfect and I thought I had solved it, but next day the jerks were back. A different kind though. Not constantly and seems much more prone to it in heavier scenery.

I am still tweaking. Reduced some graphic details (mainly dropping Volumetric Clouds down from Ultra to High made a good difference across the board) but it’s still struggling sometimes. What I don’t understand at all is when I first turned the FG off I did a number of test flights and all were perfect including fast aerobatics through the heart of Manhattan. If anything was going to struggle it would have been that!

So I feel it’s something else, not strictly scenery / location / MSFS Settings related. As usual in this sim it’s so fickle that it just has good and bad days with NO changes so I really don’t know. Maybe it’s something as fundamental as the sequence in which the layers of extra software are loaded and the point at which we CTRL+Tab into VR?

Or Nvidia driver version? Or some setting in NVCP?

Best I’ve got it before I ran out of time was:
In Virtual Desktop in the headset:

  • 80hz / SSW on (would prefer no SSW as the artefacts are bad but j can’t sustain 72fps everywhere so this is my only option. At least at 80 it minimises the artefacts compare to half of 72Hz)
  • 120 bit rate over the WiFi 6 (dedicated router, but doesn’t really make a difference) / no Snapdragon upscaling / No sharpening / image contrast ticked / vibrancy off
  • High quality (even Ultra was a bit worse for me. Tried Godlike once and to be frank it’s still not super sharp with DLSS and I can’t see much difference between Ultra and High, so went with High to give more headroom)

In the VD desktop app:

  • Using HEVC (not 10bit). Tried all the others, not much difference really.
  • Have NOT tried the force high priority on the desktop app yet. Maybe worth a try?

In MSFS:

  • DLSS + DLAA (or Quality)
  • AMD Fidelity Sharpening 140
  • TLOD 80 / OLOD 70 (I think should be able to go higher!)
  • Most settings on Medium or High, some lower shadows, Pre-catching and Windscreen effects Ultra
  • High texture quality
  • Low Glass Cockpit refresh
  • No vsynch

In NVCP:

  • Clean install of 546.29 (I think)
  • Only set Prefer Max Performance on the FS.exe
  • No vSync or any fancy settings. I had a lot of custom settings for 2D (via profile inspector) but I’ve wiped to back to defaults basically. Maybe missing something here.

Thing is I know as soon as I load into the aircraft and just move my head slightly (sliding / leaning left or right) if it’s good or not. If it’s in a “not mood”, I see two of everything as I move.

And if I take headset off and look at the monitor in VR, I see it’s holding 40fps and things looks super smooth on the 2 views so it’s something AFTER the projection/transmission to the headset it feels like?!

It’s infuriation coz I know it CAN do it perfectly even in New York and with higher settings everywhere than I ended up with. Just very hit and miss.

I think I might try SteamVR this weekend. Or OpenXR. Getting a bit annoyed with the randomness of it all!

EDIT:
Or could it be that the 7950X3D is running the VD software on the other non 3D V-cache chiplet and having to transfer data between them?!

Also I thought it may just be a mismatch between left and right eye but even if I close each eye in the headset, it’s still ghosting so it’s not that.

3 Likes
154

Thanks for the report. I verified the VD pipeline by playing the beginning of Half-Life Alyx. It’s not OpenXR of course, it’s using SteamVR through VD, but the whole Wifi6 router, transmission and latency thing is still valid. I supersampled the hell out of it in SteamVR, though it looks like VD ignores the resolution entirely and just does its own (Godlike with the “Quest3” codec, 120 mbps).

OMG it looked and worked AMAZING!

I was initially put down the moment I powered on Quest 3 and saw the Screen Door Effect (SDE) even it the Meta logo. That was a bummer. I don’t notice SDE in Reverb G2. And on white or bright areas I keep seeing the SDE in Quest 3. Though it’s not really an SDE as there is no black grid in between pixels. It’s more like seeing the RGB subpixels scattered around or something. Like seeing the pixels somehow. Not nice. I guess because of wider FOV pixels are more spread out. But inside the actual games, be it MSFS or Alyx it’s not really that noticeable.

Anyway, in Alyx, the detail was mind-blowingly amazing! I set ASW on Auto and by the look of the info panel it didn’t enegage, it kept constant 90FPS in the first 15 minutes of the game. Everything was butter-smooth with no stutters. Just absolutely perfect! I thought that G2 resolution was amazing, but I kept staring at my gloves, reading the microchip markings, it looks way better, clearer and all so sharp and juicy! Quest3 is definitely capable of amazing visuals. Arguably better than G2. It’s just making it work with MSFS is difficult. When cockpit was not jittering the outside visuals seemed smoother than I ever saw in G2. But I think just a tad less crisp. Alyx, on the other hand, with OpenVR, definitely seemed crisper and sharper than in G2.

All figures like latency, FPS etc. were good, and I walked around the house getting maybe 7 meters away from the router with a wall between it and me, and the transmission still was perfect, without any glitches. I KNOW it can do great now, just need to figure out how to make MSFS comply…

2 Likes
155

Interesting test, thanks!

I’ll have to give that game (Alyx) a go! All I played on the Q3 other than flight sim is a bit of Asgard’s Wrath 1 that came free with it to test the connection and yes it was also smooth and fine (crashed once, fine after that) but obviously it’s a much less demanding game.

Also tried a couple of stand-alone games which worked great too (Lego Builders and some rollercoaster game for my boy).

On PC the home room thing (apartment) is also smooth and fine. So yep it’s MSFS.

I will be doing more testing today to try and find a sweet spot everywhere. Maybe just being too greedy with settings so I will try much lower everything and see how it goes. Let’s compare notes if we can get this humming! I still can’t work out why it worked so well once with even higher settings (Ultra in VD and Ultra clouds etc).

Things I really don’t want to drop in MSFS is the Ultra windshield effects. The rest doesn’t really make huge difference when the resolution is lower anyway so I guess compromises are required and maybe not too detrimental. Fluidity is the most important thing!

1 Like
156

I’m not saying that you cannot get very good results using Virtual Desktop with VD’s OpenXR (vdxr) and the OpenXR Toolkit. However, I have not seen significant improvements using this, including the av1 codec. I stil can get excellent results with VD. So for me it’s mainly just a personal preference thing.

Likewise, OpenXR Toolkit is a great app, but it now looks development will be discontinued, for now at least. Since upgrading my PC to a rtx4090 I haven’t seen any benefit in using this, for me anyway.

These are the best setting that I currently use with both my Q3 and QPRo (v60) using Air Link (my preferred wireless option). This is with my i9 13900k/rtx4090/32Gb 6400ram with a wifi5 1gig router ethernet wired to my PC with dedicated 5Ghz, and I’m the sole 5Ghz user, with band steering disabled (for me, ch36/80mhz) 2-3m away from my play areas.

First things first. That is, to get settings that work well with all my PCVR games/sims.

Oculus Desktop app device graphics settings 80Hz (my sweet spot) and res slider full right. Rift dashboard left icon 200mbps Dynamic (not fixed) bitrate. Settings/general tab/ oculus runtime default OpenXR.

ODT all default/zeros, except ASW = off, distortion low, link sharpening normal.

I use the Oculus Tray Tool (google to find it) to help fine tune game profiles and ASW settings, but you can do the same manually with ODT. You can also turn off ASW manually with ctrl+nun1 (numeric keyboard 1 not top row 1) and you can do this on the fly. BTW, you cannot do this (or use OTT) with VD because it doesn’t have the official Oculus sdk’s.

SteamVR; set % visuals manually (not auto) to 100% and disable advanced super sample filtering (can make distant objects blurry). For simple apps you can try higher % visuals on a per app basis.

Nvidia; latest drivers, using DDU to properly uninstall previous drivers beforehand. Google how to do this. Nvidia control panel global 3d settings all default, except power = prefer max performance and change quality filtering default quality to high performance. Also, I custom install without adding nvidia experience.

Win10/11 graphics disable hardware acceleration graphics (HAGS) and turn Game Mode off.

OK, now onto my current msfs settings;

First thing I do is add 1.4x super sampling with OTT but you can add this with ODT pixel density = 1.40 (0 default). I do this to improve dlss clarity, while still getting the benefit of dlss smoothness and lower gpu temps. Also using stock dx11, not experimental dx12.

dlss/balanced
amd sharpening 130
rear projection Depth
world scale 100
nvidia low latency on

Rest are set to Ultra initally and I then just change a few of these;
TLOD 220
OLOD 200
trees, grass and shrubs Low
clouds High
Texture SS 6x6
water waves High
contact shadowing High
windsheild effects High
ambient occlusions Med
Rest below that = High, and Bloom On

Rest of msfs setting are up to you, lol! With all this I’m getting a very nice smooth 40fps. I hope this helps.

2 Likes
157

Slight correction: I was running 90Hz in VD with spacewarp on and my machine reports a locked 45fps with around 74-83% GPU usage (in “medium weight” scenery I would say) and around 65% vRam. More testing now but first flight was acceptable. Quite smooth but it does keep hitching even with the locked 45 so it’s weird.

I also set 16x Anisotropic in NVCP and off in sim. Tried a few of the other settings (lowered trees, bloom on, 6x6 sampling) that @SunlitAlpaca141 mentioned above but a lot of the VR things are not applicable when using Virtual Desktop I guess.

Other thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that I used DLSS Swapper to “upgrade” the DLL to 3.5.10.0.

Maybe with that GPU usage I could bump it up to Ultra in VD? I don’t want to rock the boat though so more fiddling is required! At least it’s fun to fly now it’s reasonably smooth in the cockpit lol

158

You have to pay for VD. Oculus can work very well with the right configruation. I did have to reinstall the Oculus driver to get sound working through the headset.

I prefer reprojection and I’ve found ASW (Oculus) to be overall superior to SSW (VD) which provides a horrible wobble of arifacts in the distance with pitching or rolling (nothing to do with prop wobble) on the other hand ASW has an issue for me with flashing out of the left side of the cockpit in sunny weather which turning off bloom doesn’t effect.

So what I’m saying is pro and cons, something might suck for you but without giving reason it’s hard to quantify, we have so many different combinations of setup’s here that your reasons for it sucking might not correspond to others with different hardware and budgets.

Overall though I still prefer to go with VD for the customisations and as I have a 6e router and decent GPU, then performance is good also.

2 Likes
159

I have the same problem with VD SSW. The wobble seems to come and go with no obvious reason, and I’d not found any settings that help.

2 Likes
160

I tried all night to find a smooth setting so it won’t stutter when I move myself or when I’m looking to the ground

In the end I can only archive this with the cable 0.7 FOV , 1.0 pixel per eye

It’s not crisp vision as VD godlike is , but I can maintain 72 FPS on my 4070 and flying is really smooth and stutterfree

With VD I wasn’t able to archive this , lowering the streaming quality resulting in a worse crearity than oculus SS 1.0 and when I dial it it to look like the cable setup it starts stuttering or making artifacts.

I also ordered a new WIFI6 router just for VD … didn’t help either.

The frametime and latency did also pulsating up and down . But not with the cable

161

I also tried ALL sorts of stuff last night. Using VD (VDXR) and AirLink with dedicated WiFi6 router hanging on a wall literally 60cm away from the headunit.

What is strange is that during a long (3h) group flight I did, it started off perfect. Then we stopped half way for a break. I didn’t even pause the game, just stopped with parking brake on. Went for a 5 minute rest and came back to continue and then it was bad. Like just reconnecting the headset makes it lose something or it degrades over a session and then stays bad.

It was still reasonably SMOOTH (some hitches that initially at the start of whole flight were maybe 1 stutter every 10 to 15 seconds, but after the break were happening much more often, every 2 seconds) but the WORST thing is especially noticeable looking to the side, I could see literally 2 of every object. They were still moving smoothly TOGETHER (not jumping backwards and forward in travel) but just a very obvious ghost of any item that moves quite a large amount “per frame”. (not that we were in really fast planes… 120kts) but it makes everything look out of focus. Trees, runway poles, electricity pylons, buildings etc. As well as the whole ground texture making it look not so sharp.

I did some monitoring of the hardware and took some screenshots (below). And this is the confusing part. It seems like I am NOT really dropping frames. At 80Hz (I went back to this to try and help it) with SSW it IS maintain 40fps on the whole… some dips but not as often as the hitches I am getting and CERTAINLY not all the time like the ghosting was. A reboot helped to sort it so it’s like something is getting stuck or confused, perhaps with going in and out of the headset (where it shuts down after 5 seconds).

I am Main Thread limited. Because I am NOT GPU Limited. I can MAKE it GPU Limited) which on 2D does help?) but here it just makes things worse.

In photogrammetry areas it was worse, but lowering the Render settings doesn’t really seem to kick it.

I feel like I am going in circles now. Very hit and miss. I tried SteamVR mode in VD (with SteamVR runtime selected on the desktop app side) which gives some other options for render scales / resolution BUT seems like you can ONLY run at the full 72 or 80Hz, pushing the game to deliver the native FPS (72 or 80) which I think I cannot handle EVERYWHERE (read, photogrammetry).

  • Is there no equivalent to Spacewarp in SteamVR to make the actual FPS half from the sim?
  • Can I run OpenXR Toolkit somehow with Quest3 AirLink - would it even help?
  • Wondering if THIS ticked could help?

image
image931×77 16.3 KB

  • Should I try to make my GPU always run 100% so I am NOT Main Thread limited constantly?

Maybe I will also need to try the link cable, but that will then require batteries attached to the headunit (coz otherwise it only lasts about an hour!) and I don’t really want to have more weight on my head. And more expense. And having to think about swapping batteries on longer gaming sessions.

More testing today but here are some of the performance graph screens I took yesterday:

image

image

30 02_17_01
30 02_17_013440×1440 457 KB

162

Yeah I don’t like that effect. Very off-putting. At least at higher Hz (80 or 90 with SSW) that seems to give it enough extra frames to work with to minimise the effect a bit. I just can’t run without the extra frame injection as around heavier scenery it is much worse without, so one of many compromises I am willing to make I suppose. This whole VR thang is a massive string ball of compromises!

I will have to try the Oculus reprojection method again as you wrote though. Do you have any guide for that? Not sure I know what I am doing as I am very new to all this!

Anyway, just had a pretty decent flight. On my own (no multiplayer aircraft too near, no AI traffic), 80Hz with SSW, VDXR and AV1 Codec. I don’t think the connection is the issue for me (so doubt cable would help)… it’s just the darn sim.

Flying the Mozzie around Cadiz and Jerez, so quite dense PG area and it was OK. No ghosting (yay! I think that might start if you take the headset OFF without coming CTRL+Tab out of VR first?!).

Mostly smooth but what I would describe as “lurching” stutters / hitches quite regularly (well, very regularly, but smooth in between), even when facing away from the main detail (over the sea). Not a freeze and not doubled-up ghosting, but jumping ‘scenery’ for a moment. There are so many kinds of stutters in this game we need a Glossary!

It’s really annoying and I just wish I knew what else to turn down but I think things are within limits. On this decent system it should be able to handle it?! In 2D with everything maxxed out (except LODs) it is silky smooth for me nowadays.

I still do have Car and Ship traffic (30% on sliders) and…

...These VR settings in MSFS now

image
image1501×977 91.4 KB

image
image1491×355 40.8 KB

Traffc VR:

image
image1503×900 78.7 KB

…any suggestions?

It seems pretty ridiculous that the average CPU usage can be like 3% and here we are with “CPU Limited” problems. All we can hope for I think is that FS2024 sorts it out. I have my doubts as even though Jorg claimed massive performance improvements, A) they only really said that the flight dynamics physics were passed off to another core, not different aspects of scenery and other AI / Engine tasks? And B) I don’t think they really care enough about VR to even test it!

3 Likes