I’m finally enjoying the fruit of my labor and flying the Stratoliner from KPAE to KOAK.
Mt. St. Helens off the port side at 20000’.
Man, this airplane is so much better now.
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I keep getting a number 2 engine fail after about 15 minutes flying.All the control settings are the same as the other engines so can’t seem to find the cause. All failures are disabled in the assistance settings. Strangely it also happened with the DC3 so doubt it’s your mod.
Anyone else experienced this ?
Thanks for your help.
I’ve been in the air for about an hour now and I’m not having that issue. All four are humming away.
If it’s happening in the DC-3, too, I’d check your control scheme and peripheral mappings. It sounds like something is being shut off or affecting your engines.
I absolutely can’t wait to give the 307 another go this weekend!
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It’s pretty great now!
I’m looking forward to getting some more realism baked in. I’d like to have the vitals count for something.
One step at a time.
It’s so nice to just be enjoying it right now, for a change.
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Hi NixonRedgrave,
Really amazing what you have done in such a short time.
Looking foward to do some flights on this amazing aircraft.
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It was a double binding on my Hotas. When i changed views it shut down the engine !
Deleted the bindings and now all ok. Took me a while to realise the error. Sorry to bother you with it, my fault. Thanks for your work on this aircraft, am enjoying it more and more after initially regretting the purchase.
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No trouble at all! Glad you got it sorted. Being able to bounce ideas off of each other and help one another is what community is all about.
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I got the Cabin Pressure altimeter recalibrated for 0-20000’ down from the 0-50000’ as before.
Much, much better.
Also, I found an issue where the engine primers are needed when the engines require windmill starting in the air. I’ve added a check for that and priming won’t be required when in the air provided the mixture is set rich enough to allow a cold engine to start. The proper procedure is to set the mixtures to full rich, as it is.
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I see the need for a manual. 
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I didn’t do a flight, but I started it up and let it run for a while just poking around, which had me wondering about the engine start procedure.
With the Duckworks mod, you have to start with the boost pump, then energize the starter, then mesh it, then flip the mags on and set mixture to full rich. This makes sense based on my limited understanding of these old planes.
This isn’t even close to the current procedure for the 307, which is fine, but a more accurate starting procedure would be fantastic. Is it a ton of work to do that?
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The struggle here is finding high enough resolution images to read the labels on the switches. Although this does seem to look like “Start” “Boost” “Prime” and nothing like “Energize” or “Mesh”:
As far as how “we” choose for it to be, I can completely alter the start code whichever way it makes sense to do so. I’m still having an internal struggle with the “Boost” switch(es) and feel they should be ignition boosters rather than fuel booster pump switches.
The issue is that there is no mention of ignition boost switches in the 1954 307 manual.
Comparing the starters in the 307 to those in the B-17 has been interesting in that the B-17 has no primer switches (it has a primer handpump operated by the co-pilot) and does have “energize” switches labeled “Start” and it also has Mesh switches.
The procedure for starting the B-17 is to hold Start for ~12 seconds, then hold Mesh while pumping the primer pump until the engine fires then set the mags to Both followed by the mixture set to Auto-Rich. Since there is no separate booster coil switch, the booster coil must be powered by the Start or Mesh switch otherwise there is no way the engine would fire with the mags set to off. The B-17 manual does mention the existence of the Booster Coil, so I know it does exist.
To get back to your question about a more realistic procedure. I had every intention of it being more realistic and it isn’t until you brought this up that I’m looking it over and realizing that my checks for mags and mixture are getting in the way of the possibility of an engine firing and then quitting due to a lack of mags and mixture.
I’m working on fixing that as I type this.
My biggest frustration right now is not really understanding how to initiate sound calls via the SDK. I’d like some starter cranking and some failed combustion sounds to trigger, as expected.
(The SDK is extremely difficult to learn only because the documentation, while extensive, lacks detail in some areas where some enlightening could really be helpful.)
Thanks for the feedback!
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Have you tried contacting the Smithsonian Institution, specifically the Air & Space Museum, regarding this part of the panel?
They have a Boeing 307 in their collection at their Dulles location. Perhaps they can help.
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I’m still having an internal struggle with the “Boost” switch(es) and feel they should be ignition boosters rather than fuel booster pump switches.
I always wondered this too, since there are four separate boost pump switches nearby. Interesting that the procedures differ from the B-17 the way they do.
I’ve written to their collections librarian and asked for access to all of their original Boeing documentation that was utilized in the restoration of the aircraft.
Like most big institutions, it will be awhile before I get a reply.
I’ve also contacted Boeing Historical Services.
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That is indeed Start, boost, prime.
I don’t know the exact procedure for 307, but alot of Beech 18 with electrical primers have this exact configuration.
My bet would be that they have similar procedure.
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I reviewed the Duckworks mod and I’m not really seeing there being all that much more complexity to what I have implemented in the 307, other than there being an Engergize switch that the 307 doesn’t have.
As my mod stands right now, those engines will not start without:
- Fuel pressure
- Magnetos ON
- Mixure rich
They will also take longer (but not by much) to start without the Prime switch being flipped.
In this first phase of the mod, the plan was to get the Stratoliner to a state where the bugs were eliminated, and the various systems were implemented and working. From there, focusing on realism is the plan.
What did you find about the start procedure that you felt was lacking?
I am reworking it right now, such that if you have the starters turning over and have fuel pressure, the engines will fire and then die if the mags and mixture are not set within X amount of time. That functionality is missing from the mod right now.
Also, the plan is to improve the priming function to be temperature sensitive and require more/less of it with ambient and engine temperature. These were part of what I have planned for the second phase of the mod.
Anyhow, what would prefer to see with the start procedure right now?
Basically, I had been starting them a bit like the DC-6:
- Booster pump on
- Starter on
- Wait for a couple of engine revolutions
- Prime on, Mags on, Mixture rich
- Engine running
I’ve changed it to allow the engines to fire when:
- Booster pump on
- Starter on
- Wait for a couple of engine revolutions
You’ll hear it fire and then need to set mags and mixture to keep it running.
EDIT:
Okay, I’ve implemented this now.
An engine will fire (after a requisite couple of revolutions to check for hydraulic lock) if:
- the starter is engaged
- there is fuel pressure
But you must immediately set the magnetos and mixture or the engine will stall and you’ll need to retry.
Still pondering the Boost switch function and I’m leaning on converting it to an ignition booster, which would be added to the aforementioned list of “must haves” to get the engine to fire.
I’ve also added a high amperage electrical draw for the starter during its cranking state and a lighter amperage draw during its engine fire state. Starting on plane battery power without having engine 1’s generator on and running at RPM high enough to provide a solid charge will result in the battery potentially becoming too discharged to start engines 2-4.
Now, I’m working on borrowing the starter sounds from the DC-3.
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Following the checklist (which… it’s AH, it’s probably wrong), it’s boost, prime, starter, mags. It seems out of order to me. I think that’s my hangup here. I’m also comparing apples and oranges in a way.
With the Duckworks mod, you prime once the starter is already meshed. This is the same order you’re use, right?
Basically, I had been starting them a bit like the DC-6:
- Booster pump on
- Starter on
- Wait for a couple of engine revolutions
- Prime on, Mags on, Mixture rich
- Engine running
Your order makes more sense to me, so maybe I’ll just ignore the checklist.
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Yeah, prime is something in a real radial that needs to be used with discernment. One can easily flood the engine with it and even induce some hydraulic lock if not careful. Hence the engaging in priming when certain the engine is rotating through all cylinders and ignition via boost coil is on.
I have absolutely done nothing with the checklists.
Perhaps in the future?
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That makes sense! The checklist is fine otherwise, if maybe a little lacking in detail. There are certainly much bigger things to worry about with the 307.
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