Based on some comments on this thread, it should be clearly stated here that the F4F Wildcat and F6F Hellcat are completely different aircraft, sharing nothing in common but the manufacturer and miscellaneous hardware. During Wildcat production, the Hellcat was developed as a completely new design altogether, just as the F8F Bearcat was also a completely new design developed during F6F production. Unlike the multiple variants of the P-40, Corsair, or Mustang, in which there were numerous developments of the same design throughout the war, the Wildcat, Hellcat and Bearcat were all completely unique aircraft separate from each other. The Wildcat and Hellcat are just as different from each other as a B-25 and B-26 are (as just an example) - completely different airframe design, structure, powerplant, etc.
Prior to the Wildcat, Grumman had produced the F3F biplane fighter, from which the Wildcat shared a lot of design similarities. The Hellcat, which followed a few years later, was a completely new, revolutionary design.
It has been more than 2 years since Got Friends originally announced they were working on an F4F-4 for MSFS. I am really glad that it is still being developed and I’m really looking forward to its release.
Well, not completely different. Looking at this comparison you can’t deny that they have a lot in common, including but not limited to the overall design of the fuselage:
not ‘completely different’ at all - the Hellcat was designed to be the answer to the Zero while maintaining the same ruggedness and carrier specific attributes of the Wildcat. It was an extension or extrapolation, and a refinement of the Wildcat as can clearly be seen above. Also should be stated that as part of that carrier specific aspects were the relatively short and sloping nose for increased visibility on landing approaches and the patented Grumman wing fold mechanism, apparently invented by Mr Grumman himself while on a phone call, he was fiddling with a paper clip and a rubber eraser and managed to design the fold, then rearward swing of the outer wing section right in his hands.
To this day many Grumman aircraft use this method and mechanics - to allow for more aircraft on deck and in the lower spaces. Managing that fold and swing while maintaining the structural strength required by much heavier combat aircraft without any measurable failure rate is incredible.
There’s a similarity of design/shape, but they’re still completely different aircraft. Different performance, different engine, the Hellcat is in no way an upgraded Wildcat. It’d be like calling the F-35 an upgraded (downgraded?) F-22 because they share the same manufacturer and some design characteristics.
Also, that profile comparison doesn’t show the size difference.
The F4F Wildcat and the F6F Hellcat are both carrier-based fighter aircraft developed by Grumman for the United States Navy during World War II. They have some similarities in design and performance, but also some significant differences in size and capabilities.
As you can see from the table, the F6F Hellcat is larger and heavier than the F4F Wildcat in every dimension. It also has a more powerful engine, a higher speed and climb rate, a longer range and service ceiling, and a heavier armament. The F6F Hellcat was designed to replace the F4F Wildcat as the Navy’s main carrier fighter and to counter the Japanese Zero more effectively. The F6F Hellcat proved to be a very successful fighter, achieving a kill ratio of more than six to one against the Japanese. The F4F Wildcat remained in service as a secondary fighter and on escort carriers until the end of the war.
They were only similar in generalities/design aesthetics. They were completely different in every part of their construction. Too often, as I’ve seen in this thread, the Hellcat is described as a development of the Wildcat, but it should be clarified, for those that don’t know, that the Hellcat was a completely new design, not a continuation. They share similar systems when it comes to the wing fold and vacuum flap systems, but are of completely different airframe construction from the ground up, as well as different powerplant, different load-carrying capability, and of course very different overall size, etc. I feel this is necessary to state when someone asks why we need a Wildcat when we already have a Hellcat in the sim (they were two totally different aircraft).
I’ve had the same argument about the P-51D and P-51H. Few realize that the P-51H, although all-too-often described as a development of the P-51D, is actually a completely different design, from the ground up, sharing nothing in common with the P-51D other than the name Mustang (and nuts & bolts hardware). The same goes for the P-39 and P-63.
Oh yeah! Iwrote an article in America in WWII Magazine about the defense of Wake Island. It’s an inspiring story. Having a VMF-211 livery would be great!
When you were in the squadron, Deacon8tor, was it flying Harriers?
I was flying Harriers with then VMA-211 from ‘94-‘96.
211 has had quite a history. Wildcats and Corsairs in WWII, A-4s in Viet Nam, then AV-8s in Afghanistan, where it earned its second title as, “Bastion Defenders” with the heroic sacrifice of its CO, LtCol “Otis” Raible and Sgt Atwell.
I always try to tell the story of 211 and its deeds, none accomplished by me BTW , when I can.
The F4F shares a similar fate to the RAF Hawker Hurricane and the USAAF Curtiss P-40 Warhawk.
All three are overshadowed by the newer and more famous successors Grumman F6F Hellcat, Supermarine Spitfire and P-51 Mustang.
But each of the three played an extremely important role and was much more capableble and successful than many people think:
The Hurricane was very agile and rugged. Also easier to fly than the Spitfire. In 1940 it bore the brunt of the German assault during the Battle of Britain and made the British success possible.
The P-40 was the first US aircraft to shoot down Japanese planes over Pearl Harbor and remained the mainstay of the USAAF until the Mustang and Lightnings arrived.
In addition to VMF-211, Joe Foss’s VMF-121 would be neat. British Fleet Air Arm Martlets and Wildcats would be neat too. British test pilot, Eric Brown shot down German Condors in a Wildcat early in the war.
It’s neat to speculate/request on squadron markings to be included with the plane, but naturally that’s up to the developer. Still, a person can dream.
And just want to add, the Wildcat wasn’t just “relegated” to escort carriers. The Hellcat and Corsair were too big for the escort carriers, whereas the Wildcat was a perfect fit. Yes, the escort carriers were somewhat of a secondary role, but nonetheless important. While battles are often discussed in detail, no battle happens without a functioning logistics stream.
I don’t think the original question was about the historical significance of the wildcat (which is undoubtedly very significant). It’s kinda funny how some people almost get offended by “wildcat vs hellcat”. I get it, having passion for aviation and especially historical aspects is very important.
Ignoring all that, I think it’a a fair question. If I had the hellcat and had to choose between the wildcat and say spitfire or bf109, I’d choose the latter. Yes the wildcat and hellcat are not the same aircraft, but the difference may be more like a Cessna 152 vs 172 vs 182, as opposed to Cessna vs Piper Cherokee?
Please (?) do not roast me either but with the Hellcat and the Corsair already available in the sim I found the choice of modeling the Wildcat a little strange. Specially coming from gotfriends, I would have expected something more original and interesting from the group. The competition is also fierce here and I’m not sure the effort of doing this in the same level of the already available warbirds will pay the price for GF. Hope to be wrong and that it would be a great success.
As I said don’t roast me.
Don’t worry, I was already roasted for innocent question I’m on the same boat and most probably pass the Wildcat as I don’t have infinite budget for MSFS addons. I think this choice might hurt sales, but as was already pointed out, this was apparently decided long before Hellcat was announced.
The Wildcat will be a VERY reasonably price to introduce all players to Warbirds without the hefty price-tag that normally comes with near study-level. We plan on making this an introductory aircraft with the typical Got Friends quality; deep yet simple for all players. The F4F was actually one of the most robust warbirds yet one of the easiest to fly for new pilots.
Yeah, it’s not the oddest choice like we are normally use to releasing, that said, the Simulation Community is thinning out and we plan on pushing some mainstream historical and general aviation within the mix to our weird and unusual line-up.
Quick question on that point: the Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair, Kingfisher, etc. all had 2-speed superchargers with a lever to select low and high blower. I don’t (yet) have the F6F, but I read it has that modeled. Will your Wildcat also have a functional supercharger and lever modeled?
Edited to add: I just read the F6F manual and discovered that the supercharger is modeled, but is automatically set right now because the sim doesn’t support manual setting if the supercharger control.
Oooh, he said Kingfisher! Now that I’d like to see. I flew the heck out of Piglet’s Kingfisher on FSX.
The Wildcat vs Hellcat argument is amusing for me. Hardcore aviation history buffs are going to eat up having an F4F. Totally different class of aircraft, and saying “I can’t figure out why you did this when we have these” is like saying “I don’t know why you’d do a 727 when we already have an 737 and A320.”
We already have like 4 Spitfires and 3 Mustangs. (If you count the P-51A as its own thing.) There’s a Bf-109, and an FW-190 in the works. Glad to see more Pacific Theater planes. Plenty of room for more, there, too. A decent Zero, a Tony, Oscar, or, be still my heart, a Jack… I’d be all over a Buffalo, a P-36 (even though we have like 27 P-40s at this point!), a P-82, F-80…
There’s lots of room for variety in this era of planes. Can’t wait for the Wildcat, myself!
, when I can.
I’m on the same boat and most probably pass the Wildcat as I don’t have infinite budget for MSFS addons. I think this choice might hurt sales, but as was already pointed out, this was apparently decided long before Hellcat was announced.