[Released] Wing42 Boeing 247D

I’ve heard that, but it confuses me. Why would a new engine be a different temp? Maybe they accidentally made it 0C or some such, and it can’t heat up until it starts, but can’t be started?

@Caput58

That is a very thorough listing here that mostly aligns with my observations after many hours of flying. Note that as a Co-Dev on the B247D I may be slightly biased :wink:

Some comments:

Point 2 is likely to be an issue between MSFS and B247D, I mean I have the same with other aircraft that are supposed to have state saving. It’s easily solved by using a checklist that makes you touch/set every control (See link below). This is not unlike real life, where my flight instructor never allowed me to just look at a switch, but made me touch it to make sure it was fully set.

Point 3 - I am actually unsure whether is the gauge or a deeper Celsius/Fahrenheit conversion.

Point 8 … Hm… when properly established in cruise (29"MP, 2100 RPM, Lean rich of peak) I get consistent numbers of 250-270 lbs/hr, giving ~ 900 nm range at 140 kts. Spot on.

Point 9 This a big one. Actually there’s two issus. 1) oil consumption is approx 10 times higher than technically/historically correct. 2) There are curious sudden oil level drops that co-incide with stutters in the sim, at least on my PC. This limits range to around 600 nm, draining oil before fuel!! Strangely, the issue seems(…) to have gone away after I upgraded my PC and went to SU10beta. So again this may be on the interface of add-on and MSFS.

Point 10. Correct, may be solved by including in your pre-flight to start the alternator (default ALT-A I believe)

Here is the link to a checklist that gives me good engine starts and successful flights.

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State saving seems to keep the engine temp at whatever it was when you last landed. With a new engine it seems to be at OAT which is quite a bit lower. At least it SEEMS that way to me.

If you are a co-dev on the B247D, didn’t you have any communication with Otmar in the last 5 months?

I checked the news section of the Wing 42 website yesterday, and what he says there in his latest post (from April 13) really doesn’t match the current situation of complete radio silence. So maybe really something bad happend. :frowning:

Some excerpts:

"Everything was pretty much on track, although I did have to push some of my want-to-dos down the road to be finished in a future update. Namely interactive checklists and the write-up of a more detailed explanation of the damage model we use in our Boeing. To me, it felt that it was more important to deliver on time than postponing yet again for only some minor QoL improvements.

[…]

But of course, there’s also the other side – with a complex product like our 247D, comes an increase of questions and other support-related issues. To this day, I still have around 400 unanswered emails in my inbox, because despite me working through them each day, including the weekends, the pile just slowly decreases in size.

I would therefore still ask you to be patient with us if you have an open support ticket. I’ll do my best to answer everything, but it might just take some time…

[…]

We also received some valid criticism, and are aware of some issues with our aircraft. A few days ago, I took some time to write up some of the issues we’re currently working on and posted those on the official MSFS forum. So rest assured – we’re not done yet and keep working on making our add-on better and suss out the remaining issues."

Here is the full news blog entry:

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If you are a co-dev on the B247D, didn’t you have any communication with Otmar in the last 5 months?

Unfortunately not. Note that I was a subcontractor, and I only did the Radio Range system. Otmar suddenly went from quite vocal to fully silent, and although it’s not up to me to be concerned, I am concerned.

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You did an amazing job on this! Thanks for that.

It’s hard not to be concerned now, knowing you’ve had no contact with him.

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I’m worried too, and I’m more interested in knowing how he is. Otmar.
That is the most important thing, not 247. There are many planes, but Otmar there is only one.

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It should not - physics framerate ( lets call it ticks ) should be unconnected with actual framerate, however experience in multiplayer with people having fps issues suggests it may not be as decoupled as it should be.

Time compression will speed up physics ticks too, but if something in the physics engine is reading the system time rather than the game time then you’ll get problems.

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Interesting. So really the strange behavior isn’t the cold new engine, it’s the warm old engine. It seems like they had taken great pains to model the intricacies of the cooling system, so I’m surprised that an engine would hold its heat like that in the model. I mean, yes, obviously state saving shouldn’t be saving engine temps.

But also, does this mean engines don’t cool when velocity is zero? I would agree that during flight, cooling is mostly by convection to the airflow, but I’d think they allow a non-velocity linked amount of basic cooling, to represent other forms of heat loss.

Thanks for the thorough reply. I would say that the changes in behavior that resolved with a pc upgrade probably relate to the changes I saw with use of time compression. A lagging pc and too much time compression cause frame rate issues, and both seem to break engine / oil consumption modeling.

This may even be the source of the decreased fuel usage that others have reported. The same bug that makes the engine get rid of insufficient heat (and burn all its oil) could also cause it to use insufficient fuel. Again, this would be time compression / system performance based, and therefore be a difficult bug to track down.

One last thing? You aren’t perhaps the same gentleman who posted this teaser on the avsim forum? It’s a mod for LMN that I’ve been trying to find, but I can only find this one mention for it. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/959364490804232242/965404007847833650/Radio_Range_-_Tutorial01.jpg

Nope, that mod was work in progress by a bloke with Discord name “Fritter”. He’s on my discord channel at MSFS Astro Navigators Lounge

What he was doing is make the inbound radials visible in LNM.

The Astro lounge is dedicated to the guild of dead reckoning, celestial navigation, Radio Range and other old-skool stuff. You’re welcome to join if you haven’t already.

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Oh very neat. I was half tempted to stitch together the pages of the 1944 Facility Guide just to have an easier way to plan out routes. The celestial navigation is still a bridge too far for me, but I joined the discord since doing things the historic/hard way is definitely right up my alley.

So, today I flew from KMIA to KDAB which is the longest flight I have done so far in the aircraft.
It’s about 215nm and I was messing around with radio navigation so it might have been a little bit more…
Nevertheless, the aircraft flew the distance with no issues (apart from needing some attempts to get it started) and this is how it looked when I parked it up:

And here I was afraid I would run out of oil before I got there! Very pleased with this flight, looking forward to doing some more now :slight_smile:

Oh and yes, I know, I used too much of the AUX tank, I simply forgot to switch the tanks regularly.

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This is exactly what he did with the Vega for P3d in 2018. Release the plane in an unfinished state… and then disappear into complete silence for two years until re-emerging to promote his new (and also unfinshed) release. It is his pattern…so…don’t hold your breath.

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You know, I read your earlier posts in this thread back when you wrote them and I, honestly, thought you were being pretty tough on the dev.

You were right.

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The model is in the Marketplace. Even priced at $20.00, if a mere 10,000 copies sold that’s a gross of $200K. Cut that in half after all is said and done it leaves $100K, plus all the direct sales from the website.

With a small nest egg like that, one could take some time off. Maybe it’s as simple as that. Let’s hope. :slight_smile:

Interesting estimate. I always wondered how many copies do the devs sell. Have you seen any numbers from some devs somewhere? I personally can recall just Rob Randazzo from PMDG uttering in one interview that their DC-6 for MSFS outsold all their previous sales in other platforms in a matter of hours.

But that is PMDG, of course.

Sorry for thread derailement :grinning:

It has probably been mentioned in these 1700 odd comments before but I noticed on YouTube there was a lot of videos that were startup tutorials that always had issues or saying it is hit or miss to start up and might take multiple tries. I just purchased this (I know, late to the party) and found it easy to start every single time.

I did a super quick video on how I fire this beautiful old bird up and take a short flight from Orange County up to Burbank. Some sight seeing to check out Disneyland (or is it world), Dodgers stadium, and the Hollywood sign. Finished off with a nice silky smooth two wheeled landing. Enjoy!

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Is anyone flying the 247D with SU10? Is it working great? My biggest fear at the moment is that some mandatory MSFS update will break the aircraft in some way :frowning:
Seeing as it seems more and more unlikely to get any updates from the developer,

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I flew it a number of times in a couple of the previous SU10 beta iterations. It was fine then.

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