I have flown this in all different ways, but sure, will put on the long stick and set my 75% sense settings on and fly it carefully.
But that is basically just a workaround, just like me rotating the controller.
Up is still not up
I just purchased the helicopter and done some testing,
I am on pc in vr,
Helicopter flies quite realistic with both cyclic and tail rotor assistance off.
If you switch cyclic assistance on, it is not flyable.
Gives the symptoms you mention,
Try with cyclic assistance off and see how it goes.
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Never had any assists on
Edit: but gotta check now that you say that, if its on when choosing this chopperâŠ
Well tried it: The cyclic has the exact same behaviour no matter how the assists are turned on or off.
The chopper flips over if I push up, and no matter how small movement I do the chopper still moves in a right/forward motion, and not straight forward and stopped by the skids, as it does when rotating the controller.
When rotating the controller the chopper hardly moves when pushing ( what then is) left or right or up, and pushing down it leans backwards until the tailrotor hits the ground.
And getting of the ground with assists on was a nightmare, until I rotated the controller and could gain control over it again.
Cyclic is twisted, its a fact! If its not on pc then great for you but its unflyable on xbox!
Having to adjust settings or sensitivities to operate a specific aircraft with a specific controller is not a work around. Having to turn the controller is.
Are you getting this behavior while sitting on the ground? Ground contact is not perfect in the sim.
It is pretty good on the Cabri with the changes made in SU15, but all of the helicopters in the sim donât quite respond to inputs correctly while on the ground.
Are you getting the same behavior while in a 3-5â hover?
No one is trying to deny the experience you are having, but it is clearly very different from what I am experiencing and we are just trying to help get to the bottom of whatâs going on.
From the cockpit, what is the cyclic on the model doing when you make these inputs? Is it moving to the right when you push up?
I am still testing with my setup, but I havenât been able to reproduce the behavior you are describing.
Are you on Xbox as well? What setup are you using?
I really wish we could get to the bottom of this because it is a great helicopter from my point of view.
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Yes I get this behaviour on the ground.
Did that with my girlfriend to show how eastmy it is to replicate, since you ask me this now it seems you have still not tried that.
So stay on the ground, full up on cyclic, it will flip over.
It does not flip over when you find the TRUE up on cyclic.
And I dont need to fly the chopper with small inputs if the cyclic is turned the right way, you can man handle it then if you want to, the chopper does what you tell it after that.
Nope, youâre right. I have not tried it on the ground yet, since that is not something I would normally do. I re-read youâre post and realized I was missing something. I will do a little more testing later today.
Did you test what the cyclic in the cockpit is doing with your inputs?
So I tested the full extents inputs the way you described while sitting on the ground with flat pitch.
I believe that I am seeing the same response that you are.
If I push the cyclic full forward, it rolls to the right.
If I push the cyclic full right, it tilts backwards and twists to the right.
If I push the cyclic full back, it tilts straight back.
If I push the cyclic full left, it rolls slightly to the left.
I donât know if this is how a real helicopter would respond, since I have never made a full travel input while the blades are spinning. Iâve only ever made full inputs during the before engine start checks to make sure that the controls are free & correct and not binding.
In a real helicopter, with flat pitch (collective full down) the body of the helicopter doesnât tilt or roll with cyclic inputs the way that it does in the sim. Only the disk movesâŠbut again, you would not make a full travel input like that while the blades are spinning because you could damage the main rotor bearings. So Iâve never done it, so I canât confirm what would happen, nor do I ever plan to. When you pull up on the collective, the blades cone and arenât traveling in the same plane as they were in flat pitch anyway. This is by design. Itâs quite possible that the rotor could contact the tail boom with a full cyclic input at flat pitch.
Anyway, I continued to test, and the helicopter responded the way that I expect. I recorded this last test and you can see my control movements in the input viewer. I believe that you are expecting the helicopter to respond the way that an arcade flight model would, and thatâs just not how real helicopters respond to control inputs. I was able to throw the S300 around in a way that I would in real life, and it handled as it should.
The S300 from Nemeth is, in my opinion, one of the more realistic helicopter flight models in MSFS. Itâs probably getting bad reviews, or a low star count because most people donât know how real helicopters behave. Helicopters are challenging to fly. Only about 5% of pilots IRL are helicopter pilots. Itâs not for everyone.
I didnât test with the assists on. Iâll try that nextâŠ
Edit: I tested with the assists on, and it still handled how I expect, but it felt numb and sluggish. Still more lively than other helicopters in the sim though. You canât just pull up the collective and sit in a stable hover without cyclic inputs like you can with other helicopters. Anyway, I canât find any issues that would deem it unflyable.
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So you confirm âtwisted cyclicâ good!
Case closed!
Bug confirmed!
Yeah, case closed. No bug confirmed. Did you watch the whole video?
Rotor dynamics are not straight forward. The cyclic is moving the disk properly. The cyclic in the cockpit is moving properly. I do not have to twist my setup to fly it properly.
Ground contact/friction is something in the sim that needs to keep being improved, for all helicopters. So maybe the real one wouldnât roll or tilt like that on the ground, but we may never know, because you donât make abrupt full travel inputs in a real helicopter.
Itâs flying very realistically, with very realistic control inputs. If you want a heli to behave like GTA, this one is not for you.
This thread is the definition of confirmation biasâŠ
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I am on PC with a Virpil flight stick with extension, Virpil collective and Thrustmaster Pendular Pedals.
When the S300 first came out I really loved it. Put it on my Top 10 list and tried to help others on the original thread. As far as I remember, there was a pronounced roll (or yaw?) to the right when I pushed the cyclic forward more than about 50%. But as long as I stuck to small and controlled cyclic movements (as one should), I had no issues at all.
Then Nemeth published one or two updates that were supposed to improve handling, but for me did just the opposite. Now I had the strong roll/yaw at maybe 15% stick deflection, which made flying the S300 very unpleasant for me. I was able to compensate by moving the cyclic not just foward, but equally far to the left, but that went against anything that I had memorized flying all the other helicopters in MSFS, e.g. the Asobo Cabri, the Cowansims, Taogs, FlyInsides.
After many hours researching and comparing, I uninstalled the S300 because it was driving me crazy. Nowadays when I want to fly a small trainer, I choose the Cowansim R22 or Asobo Cabri G2, which has improved nicely with SU15.
I watched your video and donât see the same effects I experienced. No idea why that is the case. But the weather is too nice at the moment to sit inside and spend even more time to solve this mystery.
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When you tip the disk forward and put the heli nose down, it puts the tail rotor moment above the rotor disk and it induces right roll that has to be countered with cyclic. Itâs nowhere near as pronounced in Robinsons since they arenât as nose down/tail up in forward flight. TFE also adds to the right roll as you go through ETL.
Each different machine has their own little quirksâŠ
I would really love to see your inputs as well. This one is a mystery to me. Itâs always been really good. The FM updates have made it more subdued, but itâs still really lively. It feels fluid and has great inertia feelâŠ
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Iâm finding this to be one of my favourite helicopters in the sim,
Takes me back to watching Jacque cousteau in early 70s
With the helicopter landing on his ship calypso.
Would like a float version of the helicopter and the ship calypso in msfs
Thats what got me interested in helicopters, i started flying rc helicopters late 70s then real helicopters,
flight sims 1981 and now pc vr,
At times we dont realise how lucky we are to have such realism in a home simulator.
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Hi Jason,
Do you have the input viewer from flightsim.to?
Since this doesnât seem to be a PC v. XBox issue, it would really help to see whatâs happening.
The right roll that I described above when the tail rotor is above the disk shouldnât happen with just forward cyclic input. Itâs dependent on the attitude of the helicopter.
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Sorry but the weather is too nice at the moment to sit inside. I definitely will try to record a similar video with input viewer when I find the time and the weather turns bad. Would be great to finally understand if the behavior is different on our systems, or if I interpret the same behavior in a different way.
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For sure.
Whenever you have time. No Rush
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The blue skies actually turned to a thunderstorm half an hour ago ⊠weather is crazy this summer in Munich! So I set up my controls, launched the sim and reinstalled the S300 from the Marketplace, version 1.0.5.
First circuit around KORS felt not nearly as bad as I remembered it. I will spend some time getting re-acquainted witth the flight model.
@belatu42 What software do you use to record your videos?
I use Nvidia Shadowplay and occasionally OBS Studio.
If you have an Nvidia card, Alt-F9 starts & stops recording.
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Using OBS to record a video was actually very easy 
I fly on an ultra-wide screen, but only recorded the center portion of the screen.
Was interesting to watch the replay to focus on the input viewer. I did need some left stick during taxi. But the weird yaw/roll that I had in an earlier version of the S300 is clearly not there anymore in the current 1.0.5.
So my personal summary is that the S300 flies absolutely fine in its current incarnation. Thank you @belatu42 for providing your input and motivating me to revisit this helicopter!
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