So it's fair to say...You really can't play VR unless you have a top of the line PC

1000fps? Ok you beat me :wink:

When I can’t weirdly reach my GPU usage 100% I can only think about a bottleneck with RAM (3200MHz for mine) as it’s the only thing I cannot monitor with my tools. DevMode still said “Limited by Mainframe” like on the screenshot in that case when my CPU is 50% sleeping and GPU at 60%…

I hope MSFS devs will improve, possibly with DX12 implementation. When I see I can win 20fps on my machine by disabling “Volumetric Effect” in Debug options I think they have headroom. I saw you recently created support ticket asking for more control on post effect and I totally agree with you. Whatever you choose in the sim, even the lowest settings, and you still have a depth of field clearly visible (if I can say that). I also saw you asked for controlling Sharpening and this could be a VR game changer for sure (like in Automibilista 2 or Star Wars Squadrons, and many other apps where SS become useless).

Let’s hope they listen to your suggestions! :slight_smile:

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Do you mean the Dev Mode menu to disable Volumetric Atmospheric (clouds etc…)? Yes they are taking a lot of GPU shader code time per frame and this is expected (these are voxels and even if they are spreading the computation over multiple frames - hence the ‘edges looking like boxes’ for a few frames - they are still taking some sizable resources).

Actually I’m even surprised they didn’t include Sharpen strength by default for 2 reasons:

  • people are reporting a wide range of critical opinions on the sharpening effect (too strong, not enough) since the simulator is released and this alone begs for giving the control to the user.
  • the CAS Shader they are now using since Update 7 is meant for having an intrinsic sharpening strength value and there is no reason not offering it technically*.

I thank you for your appreciation! The best way to raise the odds is voting!

*I will probably rant a little there, but I believe there is a strong leadership governing the decision making process and the more I see how it goes since release, the more I can’t help thinking this leadership is under the wraps of a very few people, most likely with Asobo barely involved in the decisions. I have no doubt this decision making process is necessary to deliver a certain vision of what it is best for the simulator as a game product in the catalog of XBox titles, but I can’t help also thinking this is done regardless of the opinion of the end users, and especially regardless of what is usually making a simulator a success for the simmers community, which I’ll sum up as: give the simmer the largest control over configuration and give developers the deepest access to the internals. I can’t wait seeing what’s next for FS2020 of course and in the long run there is so much unannounced new features and options the best is ahead still, but once the XBox gamers are done with it because they will be playing another new AAA franchise, what will remain sustaining the simulator for the next 10 years are simmers and you rather please them, and the 3rd party developers knowing their customers better than Microsoft.

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I’ve lowered everything down to medium and a few ultra. Using 2080ti strix and hp reverb g2 and it looks incredible. Using the OXR @60%. Lod at 100 for both. Super smooth and photogrammetry, no need to raise the lod of you have good WiFi. Getting 120mps constant in the UK. Also have hotas warthog stick combo. Pure bliss!!

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It shows 50% for core #4, it may be 100% for one of two threads on that core, unless you disabled hyperthreading on your 10700K.

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30fps in VR would make you barf. The thing is, even if the app frame rate is 30fps, you’re still seeing a refresh rate of 72 Hz to 120 Hz on the screen, depending on your headset. And regarding your other statement, this is a commonly said thing that is a misunderstanding of the concept. The ~30fps threshold IS NOT the limit of what we perceive as smooth – it is the limit at which most people no longer perceive an obvious flicker between frames, which is more related to the refresh rate than the frame rate. And even that isn’t universal – many people can still perceive the flicker all the way up to 72Hz or higher, I’m one of them. A refresh rate too low causes flicker; a frame rate too low causes jerkiness/stutters, depending on the angular velocity of whatever is being rendered. Most of the headsets people are using employ some kind of motion smoothing, whether it’s ASW, steamVR’s implementation, or just basic frame interpolation like ATW which in some cases can’t even be turned off.

TL;DR: if you really had a 30Hz refresh and 30Hz frame rate in VR without any other aids to it, it would look horrible unless there was no rendered motion and you were keeping your head still. You would absolutely see the frame tearing as well as the flicker with any head motion or app motion.

My 2070 SUPER VR settings and suggestion (Reverb G2 - WMR)

Through the lens view in the A320 with the Reverb G2*

This is really close to what you can feel in the HMD and this shows how 30fps in a simulator can be smooth as long as there is no stutters and the simulator is delivering a constant stream of images at 30hz (no Motion Reprojection)

*NB: this though the lens video is not about resolution or image quality, just smoothness.

My rig is far from the recommended specs and delivers a festival of tearing and low res overexposed scenery… yet I am hooked on VR! This is my first VR headset, I bought it for MSFS and I am never going back to 2D. Ever!

I fly GA VFR and if I keep the options to low/medium I can hit 20-30 FPS if I avoid too many clouds. And it is smooth enough to be enjoyable and does not make me sick (although other VR experiences do so I’m not immune). It’s also true that you don’t need as much scenery details in VR for it to look good.

Probably a different story for IFR though as you need higher res for the panel.

I got my PPL 20 yrs ago but never really flew since then. This is my way of getting back into it. I have been waiting for years for technology to come this far and it is awesome!

I’m already on the path to upgrading my GPU (of course!) but you can definitely enjoy MSFS in VR without a crazy rig.

Rift S
Ryzen 2700x
Radeon RX 580 8Gb OC
32 Gb RAM
Honeycomb yoke
Logitech Pro Flight pedals & throttle quadrant

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I’m not using vr (yet) but this vid might be interesting for rift owners. (Oculus tray tool)

You are absolutely wrong by speculating others’ own experiences. I really enjoyed MSFS VR with 18FPS and never got the “horrible” feelings you were trying to claim for others.

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I said 30Hz refresh and 30Hz app frame rate. That is definitely not a 30Hz refresh rate. I’m well aware that 30fps can look smooth, but only in limited conditions, especially if there’s no reprojection/motion smoothing/ASW to help it out.

And just to clarify, my comment was specifically in regards to a claim made here that anything higher than 30fps isn’t needed for smooth motion. I see this all the time online when people are talking about game framerates, and it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of a concept related to refresh rate, not frame rate. What they’re referring to is flicker fusion threshold, which is the threshold at which we don’t notice refresh flicker anymore – not the threshold at which motion looks smooth, which varies based on how fast the rendered motion is actually moving. And that threshold is not even 30Hz for most people, it’s upwards of 50Hz for most people. This is why in my reply I specifically pointed out app frame rate versus screen refresh rate.

Lastly, to your video capture there, try turning your head quickly or looking out the side at fast moving scenery at 30fps. Or better still, try flying aerobatics. If it really is just a 30fps app frame rate without any reprojection/motion smoothing/ASW, you will definitely see gapped frames. The reason high frame rates in VR matter is because of combined head motion as well as rendered app motion.

You didn’t read the rest of what I said, then. I was replying in regards to a person insisting that 30fps was all that was needed for smooth motion perception in our vision system, which is not really correct, and a misunderstanding of what that threshold really means. Smooth motion perception in VR requires a high refresh rate, and also a frame rate high enough to keep up with the rate of rendered motion. If things are moving slowly enough in your field of view, yes, 30fps can be acceptable, but not a 30Hz refresh rate. The flicker at 30Hz refresh would drive you crazy on an LCD screen.

Also, your 18fps is only ‘smooth’ because (1) your headset’s refresh rate is way higher than that and (2) there is some kind of reprojection or asynchronous spacewarp helping out, by interpolating the missing frames and injecting them. Pure 18fps without any assistance in VR would definitely not look smooth unless you were holding your head totally still and anything in view was barely moving. The end result of all this is even though the app frame rate is 18fps, the actual effective frame rate you are seeing is much higher than that, thanks to clever software tricks.

Anyway, my point wasn’t that modern VR systems can’t look smooth with low app framerates. They can. But it’s because the clever software tricks they utilize make it so that what you’re seeing isn’t actually 18fps in the display.

It could be as HT was ON at that time (I turn it OFF and ON depending benchmark I made). I will do the test again with it OFF,thanks for the idea.

Edit : so I turned HT OFF and yes, I’m near to saturate my processor, so it could be possibly the bottleneck when I lower all my graphical settings (see core #3 and #4 at 85% and 88%). The fun fact is I got more fps with HT OFF (112 vs 105).

So my I7 10700K stock clock (4,7Ghz on all core) is unable with MSFS to work enough to generate a correct VR view, as if I have only 112 fps on monitor (at all lower settings) it will be obviously unable to generate 2 x 3D views in VR (including VR management).
Interesting… and even more disappointing about the MSFS engine. It mean whatever GPU I have (I’m going to upgrade asap) I will not have my 90fps in my CV1 with MSFS, as the CPU will be in any case the bottleneck. That explain why people around with better GPU can’t reach native Hz of their headset.

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Oh, that’s a given, for sure. None of the major flight sims can do that, except for AeroFly FS2 and IL2 Sturmovik. It’s disappointing, yes, but it’s something VR flight simmers have accepted for years now, and because of it they spend tons of time trying to find various settings combinations to give them something they feel is good enough. Even after X-Plane implemented Vulkan, you can still only hold 80 or 90fps in limited conditions for short periods of time, but it seems like they’re getting closer with each update. Still a long way yet to go, though, and I wouldn’t get your hopes up for MSFS to be able to do better than fps = 0.5*refresh with consistency any time soon.


you can also play games with 5fps, nobody really doubts that. it just sucks.

i guess you’re looking at the wrong parts. or you’re eyes really have problems. are you using glasses or do you have other visual impairments?

opinion on this is that it’s the dx11 bottleneck, and will not really get better until MSFS switches to dx12.

Guess again. No eyes problem, no glasses, no visual impairments. And beyond the 1000fps fanboy phase too.

I think Asobo said that switching to dx12 wont make a big difference.

OK, you are way more expert than me on this. I apologize for my misunderstanding.

I did not felt jittering or wobbling once I used higher graphic settings. I didn’t hold my head still either. I disabled ASW but I guess something was still happening there. One clue was that a quick head movement would make aircraft window frame or wing side start to show saw like patterns, but they quickly disappeared so I didn’t feel bothered. Another strange thing was that even quickest head movement seemed never shake ground scenery. Actually I felt they were super stable and almost still during my head shake. This was very different than I observed with lower graphic settings. Maybe the headset, the game, or my brain perfectly cheated me into “virtual reality” through some hidden logics?

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If DX12 allow to better dispatch work between core it could be interesting. See my pictures above, only 2 cores on 8 are really loaded.

This is one of the value proposition of DX12 (like Vulkan): instead of letting the driver doing the scheduling for you, and limiting the application to what resemble a single threaded queue of commands, the application gets the responsibility to do its own scheduling instead (and mem management, and more of course). In other words, instead of having a “one size fits all” driver which is inherently designed to work with the worst application implementation safely, you’re having a “my size fits me well” approach where you can deliver the video card commands from your own queues, under your scheduling, when and where it fits your application game loop. (this is just a short attempt to describing it all but it is way more complex than this of course).

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