Probably because it feels like the bug reports are never really acknowledged around here.
We are tired of explaining and not getting recognized.
Exactly… Exactly…
Playing devil’s advocate here - how can you say with any certainty what the telemetry says/doesn’t say? And if your bug is caused by your Flint 4 router settings, as you used as an example, why would this be the responsibility of Asobo to address in any way, shape, or form?
Which is simply not true. If a bug is properly reported in the right context, with sufficient information to allow for reproduction, it will be handled accordingly. Hundreds of reports with the status “feedback-logged” or “bug-logged” confirm this.
Of course, if the report is limited to something like “the weather is bad” or “my FPS are bad,” then one shouldn’t be surprised if the thread ends up in the user support forum rather than remaining in the bug reports section.
Even more interesting… Yesterday (post #134)I commented on the apparent lack of interest in this latest SU7 Beta. A day later we now have an additional 30+ posts, not discussing the beta, but somehow have morphed into a discussion about bug reporting. What happened to the SU7 beta feedback discussion?
Part of the problem is, SU7 doesn’t have many fixes that are of significant interest to the general simmers. They seem to be beneficial to the developers which at some point will be beneficial to the public. There is also the fact that people report bugs and they are not addressed! At some point, people lose interest. See the following for example. A lot of us are very enthusiastic about this hobby and spend a ton of time and money on it. We know Asobo/MSFT have made some good progress, but we need them to focus on a few significant improvements to gain our trust and confidence in the team:
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SU7 has made AI plane behavior worse! Now the planes, more than before, appear out of nowhere on the runway, don’t land, don’t take off properly and don’t taxi to the gate! AI has been on the list for improvements, but it is still far far behind where it was in MSFS 2004 (more than 20 years ago). Where is the fix.
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People reported night lighting issue in SU6. It has not been fixed, where it the fix? See the screenshot below.
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CTDs have been reported starting with SU6 at EDDS and EDDB. Where is the fix? Constant CTDs with error 0xc0000005 since SU6 ; Crash with LimeSim EDDB
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With the latest SU7, the beacon lights for some planes (Fenix) are now lighting up wrong spots (i.e. passenger windows) and the shadows associated with night lighting of the planes are in the wrong locations? Why is this happening? There was no mention of night lighting changes in the change log!
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Where are the weather improvements that the simmers have been requesting for a long time and are probably most vocal about? It sure helps when we feel like we are heard and things will either get addressed/improved or at least are acknowledged. Realistic Dangerous Weather - Physics Simulation ; 5 years in and pretty much zero improvements to clouds
I didn’t say it was true, which is why I said it “feels like”.
Perception matters, if users perceive they’re not being listened to then this is what we get… no bug reports.
I agree with your description on how to file a proper bug report though.
I just finished a 13 hour flight in the PMDG 777-200ER with no issues
Here: AI Plane Behavior is Even Worse than Before with the Latest SU7
I created it. But seems like not many people want to report things anymore. I think it’s mostly because some have given up and don’t see the major issues being addressed…
It was talked about during the last Dev Q&A, Gaya is working on it.
That’s great! Hopefully they can look into it. That’s all we can do, and I for one commend you for doing so.
It is also a matter of expectations.
Who promised a solution for this in SU7 Beta 1 or 2, and when? How can anyone expect a solution for it right now? The logs in the relevant thread clearly show that the problem is complex. It will take time.
It was clear right from the Gamescom announcement of SU7 that weather wouldn’t be part of it. In general—especially following the recent developer update—expectations regarding major changes in that area need to be tempered. However, that has nothing to do with bugs or SU7 itself. While the current weather implementation might benefit from optimization, it isn’t a bug. So, that’s no reason to avoid properly engaging with SU7 and reporting any errors found. The weather issue, on the other hand, should be discussed in the relevant general threads—that’s where it belongs.
Well, go to the bug reports forum, even back to 2020 if you like and look at the “feedback logged” and “bug logged” reports.
You will find quite a lot that are in that state for years!
And this is the issue for some. Bugs got reported, feedback was given, it was logged and yet never solved while we see release notes like on SU7 that is mostly solving issues the users have never heard of and are nowhere reported in the bug sections.
This causes frustration.
And when there is a livestream where the devs don’t even seem to understand the question for better weather and cloud depiction or culling issues with aircraft although those things are reported and feedback-logged for a very long time, the frustration reaches a point where more and more people simply give up.
Or bugs that were solved in SU3 only to come back in SU6 and now in SU7 we are told that Gaya is working on it but it will take time. A bug that was reported, got solved and now is back again and even made it to the final build of SU6 and continues in SU7. More frustration.
Of course they are working hard. It’s just that we don’thave faith anymore that they are working on stuff the community actually asks for.
And asking us for feedback but never giving any proper feedback in return, is just bringing frustration to a breaking point. SU7 seems to have hit a nerve here for many of us amd this frustration should be taken serious instead of being silenced or belittled.
Yepp.. devs dont listen/react anymore
About the weather…
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I find it unlikely with this model/engine. Every time Seb tries to explain it, he just gets more tangled up and scratches his head rather than actually explaining anything.
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I think they should just be open about it: “we can’t do this in this simulator”—then the frustration would vanish, and we’d accept it. The tricky part is for us users who believe it’s possible, while the devs don’t know how to deliver it.
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But I understand that SU7 isn’t focused on this; the only thing is, it mustn’t break what has already been delivered in SU6.1.
In my opinion based on the release notes they may as well have just released this beta to the participants in the Dev support forum and held the general discussion there.
For the people interested in the air races they have their own thread but for the general user base people looking for long standing issues to be fixed… meh no tangible progress so resulting little to no participation.
This mornings read of this thread was depressing. People with comments and complaints and the usual people berating others for not having the motivation to file bug reports even though the actual mods say it is not required and this beta release not providing much inspiration to actively participate.
Yayyy !!
Hi folks,
I’ve been reading this thread and have seen several questions from simmers asking about what you should test, automatic telemetry, reporting bugs, and using mods/add-ons, etc. during public beta tests. This post will address many of those questions.
I’m unsure about what and how I should be testing.
We don’t expect you to “test” anything in the same sense that our internal QA team performs detailed functional testing of each build. What you should do as a beta user is just use the sim normally as you always do even when you’re not participating in a beta.
As I’m sure you can imagine, almost every MSFS player uses a unique combination of hardware, peripherals, and software add-on products, which makes it impossible for our internal QA team to test the sim with every possible permutation. That’s why having a large number of players enrolled in the beta who each have different sim setups is incredibly valuable to us, even if many beta participants choose to not contribute any written feedback here on the forums.
What should I do if I encounter an issue during a flight in the beta?
First, you have the option to do nothing at all, and that is still very helpful. Just by participating in the beta, details of your flight sessions are logged (for example if you experienced a crash that prevented you from completing a flight), and the data we receive from this automatic telemetry is analyzed very carefully by our Production Team. Even if you have a perfect flight and encounter no issues at all, that is still valuable information to us as the automatic telemetry will report that your flight completed successfully without crashing, which is one of several metrics we track very closely with every build.
If you do wish to provide additional feedback beyond the automated telemetry, though, then there are a number of ways you can do so that are even more helpful to us:
Firstly, please vote in our forum surveys. We tabulate the results from these polls and send the results to the Production Team multiple times every week during every beta period. We review these numbers carefully and look to see how the voting is trending between each successive beta build.
Please be sure to vote appropriately for each survey topic, though. If you’re upset because the latest build didn’t have a fix for Bug X or contain any improvements for Feature Y, by all means you are welcome to express your displeasure by voting negatively in the “Overall Rating” survey and in the specific category (e.g. Career Mode if you are not satisfied with Career Mode in the current build) and then post written comments explaining why you gave the build a low score in those areas. However, it isn’t helpful to the team if you also give the build a 1/10 rating for Performance and Stability, for example, if you didn’t encounter any problems specific to those areas.
Secondly, we encourage you to post general feedback and impressions in this thread. Many members of the team (including the Community Managers, Producers, Developers, QA analysts, and even Jorg himself) read the comments here, and every week we create a report of all the top trending issues, concerns, sentiment, and overall impressions that is then shared with all relevant MSFS staff. Your feedback and comments are incredibly important, and we genuinely appreciate those of you who take the time to post your impressions (positive and negative) of each build.
Thirdly, if you encounter any issues, please create a bug report in the appropriate Sim Update 7 Beta | MSFS 2024 subforum (e.g. if you have a problem with an airport, create a new bug report in the Sim Update 7 Beta | MSFS 2024 > Scenery & Airports section). For beta participants, there are three types of bug reports that we are primarily interested in:
- Is a particular bug/issue still present in the beta even though the release notes say it was fixed (i.e. the fix isn’t working properly or it’s only a partial fix to the issue)?
- Is there a problem with a new feature introduced in the beta (e.g. National Championship Air Races in SU7, Bush Trips in SU6, PS VR2 in SU5, Red Bull Air Racing in SU4, etc.)?
- Is there a regression from SU6.1 (i.e. something is working fine in the v1.8.16.0 release build but is now broken in the current SU7 beta build)?
If your issue falls into one of the three categories above, it is especially important to submit a beta bug report thread by following these guidelines:
- When creating a new bug report, it is absolutely essential to properly complete the template in full and to provide as much information as possible so our testing team can reproduce the issue, diagnose, troubleshoot, and resolve the problem.
- If it is a regression in SU7, then please create a new bug report in the appropriate Sim Update 7 Beta | MSFS 2024 sub category.
- If it is an existing bug that is present in SU6.1 and is not resolved in SU7, then please post in the regular non-beta Bug Reporting Hub section of the forum, not the beta section. Please do not create duplicate bug reports for existing issues.
- Before creating a new bug report, check to see if another beta user has already reported the same issue. If someone has already reported it, please upvote their thread and reply with your own information to better help the devs diagnose and resolve the issue.
- Limit each bug report thread to one issue only. In our internal bug tracking system, we always include a link to the bug report thread here on the forums so the developers can refer to your comments, reproduction steps, screenshots, and videos when they work to resolve the problem. It’s vitally important to them that the posts in each bug report thread remain on-topic about that specific bug only, not a meandering conversation about six different issues.
- You may discuss bugs and issues in this general feedback thread, but please remember that this thread should not be used as a substitute for creating a dedicated bug report topic using the full template. If you mention an issue in this thread but don’t create a bug report for it, then it won’t get upvoted by other community members and allow them to contribute additional information, nor will it get logged in our bug tracking system.
Can I use mods/add-ons during the beta?
YES, but…
We know using mods and add-on products such as third-party aircraft, airports, scenery, liveries, utilties, etc. is vitally important to most simmers, and you are welcome and encouraged to use all of your regular add-ons (from both the in-sim Marketplace and from your Community folder if playing on PC) when participating in the SU7 beta.
However, if you encounter any problems (such as poor performance, crashes, or any other new bugs/issues that you didn’t experience in SU6.1), please try the same flight again with a non-modded stock sim setup without any add-ons before creating a bug report, posting negative feedback in this thread, or voting in the forum surveys.
For a hypothetical example, let’s say you did a flight in the SU7 beta from KJFK to KATL. You were flying a third-party add-on plane, and you were using bespoke add-on scenery for both airports. You also used several other popular third-party products such as Volanta, ChasePlane, SayIntentions, Flow Pro, GSX, and FSLTL. Throughout the flight you experienced poor performance (stuttery framerates), and you also had a CTD while on short final at KATL. You didn’t experience any of these issues when doing the same flight with the same add-ons in the SU6.1 release build.
Before posting to the forums and/or voting negatively in the surveys about this, try the same flight again but this time without any add-on products enabled. Use one of the default aircraft and the built-in stock scenery for KJFK and KATL. Also disable any other mods/add-ons you were previously using.
Do you still experience the same issues with a basic stock sim?
- If YES, then create a new bug report thread (with the full template) describing your issue in as much detail as possible.
- If NO, then re-enable your add-ons one at a time and fly the same flight until you determine which mod is causing the problem. Submit a report to that add-on’s developer (e.g. to their support email, Discord server, or other customer contact method) that their product is having issues in the latest SU7 beta build.
- Most add-on developers test their own products during each beta, so they may already be aware of the issue and are already working on an updated version to be ready in time for the final release of SU7.
I hope this post answers many of the most common questions we have seen in this thread. Once again, we wish to thank everyone who enrolls in the beta, including those who post feedback and comments, vote in the surveys, create bug reports, and even those who just fly normally and only contribute automatic telemetry data. All of you help our team make MSFS 2024 the best it can be!
Thanks,
MSFS Team
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The EDDS and EEDB fix is complex? I am sure it is, but Aerosoft was able to at least temporarily fix the issue with EDDS! Not sure why Asobo/MSFT are not able to do a hot fix or fix it as part of SU7? It’s an issue they introduced with SU6. Should have been fixed then, already late by SU7.
Yes, weather issues are not related to SU7. But I think you didn’t get the point of my entire post. Which is fine.
Might not be a bug then. Could be a change to the SDK that requires the developer of scenery to make a fix.
Except it’s not the scenery itself, it’s a POI causing the issue.
The sim is still very much in an active state of development. While the sim at its best is absolutely awe inspiring and can delivered incredibly immersive results, at its worst it is a bug-riddled frustrating mess that behaves differently for each simmer making it near impossible to optimise for everyone.
For me the MSFS Project was overly ambitious and has failed to live up to its expectations across the multiple platforms it’s been developed for (PC, XBox, PS5)
Will I still use it? yes. Do I enjoy it every session? No. Am I slowly losing interest while so many bugs remain and it’s clearly not a finished product ? Absolutely