Turn On Turbulence

Bug Reporting Hub Weather & Live Weather
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Dude, easy, easy if you don’t mind hh I’m just sharing my thoughts, I’m not asking you to agree with my feelings based on real experiences, it’s just subjective… if it feels ridiculous to you, that’s ok but again it’s just about sharing our thoughts here not only about “complaining”, I’m tired with this word “complain” by the way! I do not care if someone, you or myself prefere Xplane or msfs or Train Simulator, there’re only imaginary battles!
If you don’t mind about flying through TS or CB without any turbulence, any danger that’s fine for me, it’s not ridiculous on my side, it is just about what you do like and I’m totally ok with that, how could I be disturb by that behind my screen?
…
Same on my side if it kills my immersion when I fly a C152 in CB or TS without any turbulence, would you like to accept it nicely? I mean that I don’t want to hurt any feelings here. If an user wants to start the engine by CTR + E it is not because I know how to fly birds in real that I find it ridiculous in a sim!
See my posts on Xp forum where we were many pilots (real ones) to bring our feelings about the crazy turbulence we had in CB ( funky bank angle, overspeed just by flying though a cloud) during xp beta time, which was totally unrealisitic, so yeah for Xplane big time fan boys it was ridiculous even offensive as “go back to msfs if you don’t like Xplane, why are you complaining here” crazy right? hh well…

Again as I wrote previoulsy, something like it’s a beta SU12 and hopefully new features will come to the official version and perhaps we will all be happy, users who want to fly without any turbulence by putting in low mode, others who want to get it as much as realisitic that msfs can do, so nope I don’t throw out the baby etc etc what sense can I give to that statement?! hh
On the other hand, I do agree that msfs simulates the atmosphere ( somehow) better than Xplane 12 in some areas, that is my feeling as well however if you know by experience how it goes in real sky there’re some stuff that are still missing obvioulsy in msfs that I found in Xplane and vice & versa which makes it hard now to have a precise comparison imo especially with the very last XP update that brought recently many fixed and new features in the xp atmosphere model (you can take a look at the notes) Maybe you did some tests around about that last xp update if you’re able to compare? Therefore please let me know then. I’ll be back in front of my home cockpit in a couple of days to test the last xp update, on my side. I can’t be sorry that I care that much about realism/immersion.
I know that it is very difficult here and there to compare both of the sims in a wise matter, usually people get very emotional as if they had a real crash landing in the real life…
We are all in a simulation after all!

Fly safe and enjoy msfs or xplane or both or Farming Simulator, you’re still my friend! lol
Cheers :wink:

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But those that claims here on the forum that something is overdone, for example about turbulence. This thread says turn on turbulence but i have also seen other threads that says turn off turbulence.

What thread should they listen to?

I know you ask them to get knowledge but what does that matter if we see both turn on turbulence and turn off turbulence here on the forum? Do those that creates those threads have knowledge? In my opinion some turbulence is better than nothing. Then the turbulence we have should be improved not removed. I know we had turbulence in clouds at release of this sim but that got removed because some stated it were overdone.

I really hope now with turbulence options implemented we will see more added turbulence instead of removal. And that those added turbulence gets improved over time instead of removed.

And i for sure agree they need knowledge how turbulence feels and act on the plane to make it feel realistic in the sim. But the real tricky part is to get it feel correct in various masses of aircraft. And also various models of aircraft. Every single aircraft behaves different in the atmosphere.

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Nice turbulence out of KPHX today. Nothing to heavy but nice buffeting.
220° at 8 KT
Gusting to 14 KT

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I understand you need to have CFD (Control Fluid Dynamics) activated in your airplane’s Flight Model cfg, and that this is early days and MSFS are working on this concept, but it sounds like it has a lot of potential to be like what MSFS was to visuals, ie much more in-depth and realistic.

I have it activated on the Prosim 737 but the turbulence is not that realistic at all (I have a motion platform which gives more realistic bumps when taxiing which is very good btw), but apparently (look at the following link), turbulence for jets has not been implemented, so that is probably why some say they have too much and some (like me) say there is nothing.

The turbulence (CFD) has been implemented for rotating parts, such as props and turboprops, see here:

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/questions/5441/questions-about-pitchrollyaw-gyro-stability-parame.html

To quote from this:

So, both precession parameters only affect the influence of rotating parts on stability? That is, they would normally have no effect on a turbojet airplane?

That’s right, precession scalar are applied when computing engine torque in the case of piston engine and turboprops, not jet engines.

In conclusion, jet flyers need to wait for MSFS to do their stuff on CFD

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You already have a switch “turbulence low” and other assisted options for beginners. Now low, medium and realistic options have absolutely the SAME effect. Obviously, it’s broken, and it’s not only me, my other RW pilots friends say the same things.

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Yes we are flying in same winds but we reduce the effect on the aircraft if we have it set at low. I’ve tested and low compared to realistic is much. Use low if you don’t like the effect on aircraft.

If that setting not working for you then post a video showing it’s not working. I can post a video showing it’s working if you want.

Setting the turbulence to realistic will not automatically add turbulence inside clouds though. That thing Asobo needs to add.

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I agree with you exactly. The jets has nothing. Also is missing inertia of mass. They have a lot of to do

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I guess that what @camrad1983 means is the same as you buddy and myself but in different terms, which are: no matter if you put msfs in “realistic” mode or not it doesn’t change that much, neither adds turb in clouds or different turbulence/phenomena that we should encounter as we do in real flights…
And certainly we all agree with the fact that everything (turbulence, icing effects) was removed step by step since the release date to please the majority who cares much more about “visual stuff” than realism and sometimes it shows some king of arrogance like if they know better than real pilots (which sounds crazy somehow but majority is majority if beliefs become their “reality” then it is difficult to talk about the real sense of reality… (I mean the reality that don’t belong to my beliefs because reality is reality, the weather works anyway the way it works no matter that I’m alive or not lol no matter what I believe about the moon if it is a square, the moon is still a sphere !) double lol

Anyway despite that SU12 should give us the opportunity to check “realistic” option ON (indeed but with no effect yet or barely) and as you mentioned “we had turbulence in clouds at release of the sim” but since, CFD (big topic) or not doesn’t give us any tangible satisfaction, it is like we have a good engine but with no fuel to make that engine works at its real potential somehow…

Therefore what is the purpose of it? … if again they still remove important features that must to be implemented in the “great” msfs atmosphere to make it realsitic as possible? … I even read here and there something like “the atmosphere in msfs is the best ever done” ??? well I just talked about a good engine with no fuel to make it works, anyway…

Of course this sim has a huge potential but we need people (Asobo) to get involve for real. (not only words on Q&A but actions) for the sake of realism.

Asobo makes some statements frugally with sometimes giving the feeling that they do care about “danger in the skies”, turbulence, unlimited updraft/downdraft and more if we get back to the advertising videos before msfs got released as something like: “a weather engine ultra-realitistic as never done in a flight simulator” etc … well we now see the result that it is the opposite direction that they choose to follow to please the majority that has any idea of what realism is.

Despite that Asobo claims that real pilots are around to give them the best picture of what the real sky is, well two options here that I put as a real pilot: who are those pilots? Are they real ones? How many hours in skies for real? (I can’t believe they are not real ones) or the option that I do believe is that they don’t listen to them or again it is just ( “éléments de language” ) like in politic/“marketing” or advertising. A sort of diplomatia to please everyone but only the action tells the truth if I want to be a little bit solemn here hhh so we’ll see how it goes… I don’t know anymore, it’s weird.

Whatsoever, at the end of the day SU Beta 12 doesn’t bring any hopes on my side except the hope that I create myself based on my fantasy so yesss I still hope on the other hand that at the end of SU12 I will get back to msfs because of realism! Hopefully!
The very very last XP12 updates (we have to test it to talk about it, if not it is empty talks) and the new Open Active Sky beta respond to my satisfaction, I cannot fly a C153 in CB or worst a B742 in TS so I have to care about the weather while I create my Flight Plan exactly like we do in real, VFR and/or IFR flights! So I can keep my msfs frustation in a good place! :+1:

Also what gives me hope (still) is the option " realistic mode "that is supposed to open a window to unlimited up/downdraft, turb in clouds and so on… why this option has no value in BETA SU12, it’s so weird and doesn’t make sense apart if they are working on it now it could change, I wish, we wish!

Let’s Wait & See (as usual)

PS: My friends, real pilots and hardcore-simmers, we can say to ourselves in front of our mirror: " dxxxx how patient and nice we are!!! " :upside_down_face:
2 years and a half after the release date and msfs is still far away from a realistic flight simulator based on those great advertising videos claiming so much about the weather and phenomena (I’m talking here only about the corner stone in AVIATON: THE WEATHER AND ITS DANGERS!!!) and we are still stuck to square one!!! We’re good people, very clients no joke!

:rofl: :weary: :wink:

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Yes, i totally agree. I think i missunderstood @camrad1983 a bit. I’m sorry. I agree setting the turbulence at realistic doesn’t add anything else. Setting it to low only reduces the small amount of
turbulence we have since before su12.

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I thought for a minute even going to record a video of me showing real turbulence and wind effects in real aircraft but then what’s the use - they will flag it as well. Also, did you notice the visibility here is always unlimited or always reported in METAR if low? Sort to say if vis would be 3/4 statute miles, then it will show but you never see the visibility of 20 statute miles, or 10 sm, or even 30. I can always see unlimited. And turbulence again does not exist in this game. I can see the updrafts and downdrafts that are really too short (right above the ground) and only affect light aircraft. You never even see the wind effect to the wing. I can land this thing not even moving the yoke on windy days, whereas in the real world I would have to counteract with an aileron a lot.

below i’m using the webcam location where vis is 10 sm

Ca3pture
Ca3pture1920×1044 130 KB

here it is showing 10 sm

Capture
Capture2687×1999 339 KB

upclose webcam you can see how visibility is really 10 statute miles

Captur1e
Captur1e3613×2105 347 KB

but in the game it is clearrrrr except the above clouds

Ca4pture
Ca4pture1920×1027 97.3 KB

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This thread is not about the visibility though. But i agree. They do not render the visibility that comes from those weather models. They inject the low visibility data that comes from Meteoblue but it’s not shown as low visibility in the sim. Check the ambient visibility in weather debug tool and you see what i mean. The only data we get as low visibility rendered is the METAR around airports only.

Well, back to the topic.

I know Seb said that we will get turbulence as soon as the option for turbulence is implemented. If i understand him correctly the turbulence inside clouds should never have been implemented in su12 only the option. More like after su12 when the turbulence option has been implemented. He said that if the improved turbulence generate 20000ft/minute lift or sink we will get that.

I think we will have some interesting updates to look forward to. Hope sooner than later because we are some that has waited for this to happening since release of this sim. Or for us that could see the turbulence mentioned in those earlier videos before the sim got released. Why show those videos if turbulence inside clouds were not meant to be in the sim?

I bet many bought the sim because they showed those features to begin with.

Would be same thing if they suddenly removed the real sattelite terrain that makes it possible to fly VFR that they showed before the release in my opinion. I bet many bought the sim because of that as well.

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My programmer real-world pilot friend has found the lines in code that change many aspects of turbulence and aircraft behavior. It looks like the engine is capable of having it realistic, but devs in asobo haven’t touched it yet. We are doing tests. Will post video of results soon, according to the real turbulent areas. If I have time I will record the real-world turbulence effect in while flying in reality.

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You can only change the way the aircraft reacts to turbulence though, right?

You can’t touch the source of the turbulence i.e. the atmosphere.

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Correct. That’s all in the coding. The different options between low, medium, high, and realistic are already predefined and only affect the aircraft based on the parameters for each setting.

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And remember not all of the aircraft uses the CFD simulation yet.

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I looked at the CFD visualistation tool a few weeks back, that and the Forces views, and I honestly don’t remember seeing any indicates of lateral forces acting on the plane, and it appeared it was all in the vertical.

Is there any side, or lateral force simulation while in the air?

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Do you mean the CFD lines in the flight model cfg? I have the following at the end of the [Aerodynamics] section, the 1st line you need tgo set at 1 or on:

CFD_EnableSimulation = 1
CFD_ReinjectBody = 0
CFD_ReinjectVTailX = 0
CFD_ReinjectHTailY = 0
CFD_AirViscosity = 0.05
CFD_AirInCompressibility = 0
CFD_VoxelSizeScale = 1
CFD_VoxelNbVoxels = 20
CFD_GroundCollisionVoxelOffset = 0

but as mentioned in my earlier post, it has little effect at the moment for jet airplanes, as Asobo is still working on it.

The bumps of taxiing on the ground with my motion platform are extremely realistic, if Asobo can reproduce something similar in the air and entering clouds that would be excellent. If I close my eyes, the taxiing bumps are very similar to the usual bumps you get entering clouds in a real airliner, obviously this would need to be increased for CB and other more extreme turbulent air.

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Don’t think that is necessary: the problem is that irl ones body including the eyes (dampened by the cushioning of the seat, structure and mass of the plane etc) are exposed to the turbulence. In the sim you just wiggle waggle a 2D image in front of your eyes and that is perceived much stronger than what you would “see” when in a real airplane. So the amount of wiggling to imitate turbulence is highly dependent on the individual looking at the screen. This means that you need a setting that can be adjusted (not just an on off). There will always be a discrepancy and individual perception unless you have a moving seat that can fake the movements and dynamics of a pilot chair and the whole body of the simmer.

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Yes, they mentioned in a q&a last november they wanted to implement the options for turbulence first. Then they are able to improve the turbulence in the CFD simulation. But we need to have an aircraft that has cfd enabled. I feel it’s confusing. We have two kind of CFD simulations in the atmosphere. One locally around the aircraft (more detailed) and one global CFD (less detailed). I hope they are able to get the aircraft CFD global as well then we don’t have two types of CFD. Only one fluid as it is IRL. I think it will feel more realistic and dynamic.

Maybe su13 will be the atmosphere update we all are waiting for? :slight_smile:

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Where is the slider for strenght of turbulence? Cant find it (SU12, not beta).