VASI / PAPI too difficult to see in daylight conditions

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Yes

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

Same as OP. In daylight, papi lights are very hard to see. They should be rendered bigger (as in more pixels).

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

this is how they were in fsx

I will say, on an HDR monitor I haven’t had any complaints finding PAPI lights; these and aircraft running lights are noticeably brighter than surrounding ground. (Mine’s rated for 1000 nits max brightness, which gives much better daytime view than my older 400-nit monitor.)

Yep, I’m at the two mile mark and I can clearly see I’m under running the GS as usual.

Edited - added a sample photo taken today. KSFZ Runway 23 at 2.1 NM to threshold. Glide path and PAPI agree.

20240429184632_1

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Hi,

I have real trouble seeing the PAPI/VASI lights in MSFS, especially when there is snow on the ground.
Never experienced this in other sims or IRL.

well, something’s definitely up with the papi lights then…

in KSFZ i have NO papi lights

and when i do have papi lights, they look nowhere near like yours


KRVL

---- EDIT—
they are so small they got swallowed by the jpeg compression, they must be 1 or 2 pixels at the most, yours are way more visible

Yours has a two-box VASI on the left side (V2L). @CasualClick has a four box PAPI (P4L), also some sort of MALS and maybe centerline lights. One of these things is not like the other, but neither is correct (should be a P4L, but no MALS or CL). Either of you running a mod/third-party scenery? Beta? World update?

good point, no scenery mods or beta, but i believe i do have a runway lights brightness mod… i wil report back

Beta 15 and freeware North Central. I’ll recheck using a stock airport.

no joy… removed runway lights mod, emptied community and restarted sim
KRVL

at night they show up nicely tho

Retest using stock KUUU RWY 04 - no one’s touched the VASI.

Three mile final - yes I’m way below GP because yours truly forgot to press APR. :smile:

But clearly seen - overcast day.

image

2 miles to threshold:

its like i’m missing that “bloom” effect that is what makes them bigger
they show as a single tiny pixel for me
i checked my bloom setting in the game, its on
some setting in the nvidia driver?

I’m on Intel ARC770 - my old system has a 2060 Super, but it doesn’t have the sim on it any more. Maybe someone else with an RTX can opine?

as an interesting side note, at KRVL the aerodrome beacon is hanging in midair right in the glide path

that could be it

@TOLOWTERRAIN723
FYI, This is what I see from about the same position at KRVL, 12:00 noon local time:

I also see the beacon light at the end of the runway.

Like @CasualClick , I have an Intel ARC770. The screenshot is from my 55" TV @4k. I have no difficulty seeing the lights, though it is hard to see from the pic as it has been modified during the upload process.

Partial Specs & settings:
Build: SU15B v1.37.15.0
3rd-Party Addons: None, Community Addons: None
i7-12700K (No overclocking), 32 GB 5200 MHz DDR5 CL40, Intel Arc 770 (16GB, v31.0.101.5382).
Graphics Tab: Full Screen 3840 x 2160 TAA, Render resolution - 100, AMD Fidelity - 150, VSync - On, FRL - 33% MRR (120 Hz), HDR10 - On, DX12B, TLOD @ 400, OLD @ 200, Motion Blur - Off, Other settings - all Ultra (Water Waves & Glass Cockpit Refresh Rate @ High).
Data Tab: Data Connection: All six options - On, Data Limit - Off, Bandwidth - Unlimited, Rolling Cache - Off
Developers Tab: Developer Mode - Off
MSFS Version: MS-Store, Standard, plus All World & City Updates.

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is your monitor HDR by any chance?

@TOLOWTERRAIN723
Yes. The 55" TV is HDR capable and is enabled in the OS & in the TV settings. Peak brightness, as shown in System > Display > Advanced Display is 1,499 nits.
The second (32") TV used by MSFS (Experimental Window # 1) is not HDR capable, so HDR is unavailable to be turned on in the OS.
HDR 10 is turned on in the MSFS Graphics Settings.

im beginning to think that may be the issue here…maybe the game was made to be run on a hdr monitor
although i’m not sure how this all comes together when you do a screenshot, and i see that screenshot here, on my NON hdr screen… and the papis do indeed look much more visible
im a bit out of my league here

I’m too high and too fast, but another sample point - Lebanon Municipal NH KLEB.

lol, I know it’s not the thread topic, but y’all gotta stop posting these pics with wrong VGSIs as it’s triggering my OCD and filling up my World Hub queue. :sweat_smile:

25 at KLEB should currently be a P4R. That said, I’m sure it used to be a V4L, but as you can plainly see in the pic, the old VASI are misplaced - the aerial shows there should be much more spacing and the downwind (closer) bar is way too far from the end of the runway, leading to a much higher threshold crossing height than it should be.

Back to topic - I don’t use an HDR monitor and they can be a bit hard to see, especially if the background is lighter.

I’m trying to fly approaches to stock airports so it’s apples-to-apples. :sweat_smile: