Very difficult to take off on 172

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Finding it very difficult to take off Textron Aviation Cessna 172 Skyhawk G1000

Dont know what the problem is

Once I reach 60 knots - I gradually pull nose up but find it very unstable and plane rapidly descends to crash

Its so much easier to take off on the Cessna 152 ( same plane as tutorials )

Dont know why this is the case

I do the same thing on 172 as I do on 152 - but 172 is impossible to take off and 152 is easier

The problem is to learn all the autopilot stuff on the G1000 it is only on the 172 - so dont know how to learn to take off on the 172

Dont know how to solve this problem

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This could be a control sensitivity or binding issue. It could also be a trim issue.

It could also simply be technique. If trimmed properly, the 172 will pretty much fly itself off the ground. When you say ā€œgradually pull the nose up,ā€ about how far and fast are you pulling?

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Thanks for your reply

These are my observations

For the Cessna 152 - I get to a speed of around 60 and gradually pull the left stick down to take off - which works fine and there are no issues

The problem is on the Cessna 172 G1000, I do exactly the same thing as on the Cessna 152 - and it does not work

I donā€™t know why this is - as I thought the Cessna 172 is a beginners plane just like the Cessna 152 - so I donā€™t understand why the same method of operation that I employ on the Cessna 152 to take off - does not work on the Cessna 172

My trim controls are on the keyboard - Num 1 to trim up and Num 7 to trim down

I need to know once I rev the engine up to max on the Cessna 172, release the parking brake - and once the speed is around 60 - how I can take off easily here after I gradually pull down on the left stick

Is it a case that I just need to slightly touch the left stick down to take off on the Cessna 172 and not push it all the way down

Also once I have just taken off - what do I need to press on the keyboard in the way of trim to maintain a gradual increase in altitude - Num 1 or Num 7

What should my flaps be on take off - is it 10 degrees ?

The Cessna 152 is easier to fly for me than the Cessna 172 - but I think they are both beginner planes.

In any case I am learning autopilot and navigation on the G1000 - as the Cessna 152 does not have this on the Xbox - it would be good to know how to take off ( and land ) on the Cessna 172 as this supports G1000 only

If I canā€™t take off on the Cessna 172 I will just have to fly around on the Cessna 152 without the benefits of the G1000 navigation aids

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When i see the word ā€œunstableā€, I think of the ā€˜Legacy vs Modernā€™ flight model. Although I would expect that to affect the C152 too.

Is the 172 the only aircraft with problems?

For average take-offs, you donā€™t need any flaps. That would be on a decent stretch of asphalt. For grass or short field take off, you can add 10 degrees of flap.

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Rotation in a 152 should be 50 knots, but 60 will be okay.

Rotation in a 172 should be 55 knots, again a little faster will be okay.

Either of them should be ready to fly at those speeds and all you need to do is add a little back pressure (pull the stick aft) and hold it there until the plane rotates and comes off the ground. If you do this at a faster airspeed, it will more firmly rotate (called an ā€œunstickā€). The faster you go, the more effective your controls are and the more responsive the airplane will be.

What the sim isnā€™t replicating is force - in real life itā€™s not easy to just yank the controls to their stops - the airflow over the control surfaces (ailerons, elevator, rudder, etc) will ā€œfightā€ against your inputs (again, moreso at higher speeds). Our various joysticks, yokes, and game controllers use springs to replicate this, but itā€™s still too easy to go to the stops and overcontrol.

So what Iā€™m guessing is that you have a combination of speed and overcontrol thatā€™s making it difficult. As to why the two planes are behaving so differently (they really shouldnā€™t - the 152 is lighter and more nimble, but doesnā€™t have as much power), I canā€™t answer that. Maybe thereā€™s a flight model issue? Have you checked to make sure your flight model is set to modern (not legacy)?

Flaps up for takeoff unless youā€™re doing a short or soft-field takeoff, then use 10Ā°.

Trim deserves an entire thread on its own. Why we use it is to relieve control pressure used to maintain a certain attitude. Itā€™s affected by pitch/power, weight/balance, configuration and aircraft performance.

The details as to what and how itā€™s correctly used is a little more detailed - itā€™s not lesson one material. Simply put - set the nose where you want it with the elevator, then use trim until you donā€™t have to use any pressure on the elevator. Takeoff trim should be set so the the indicator carat is aligned with the line next to the trim wheel.

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So at a speed of 60 or so on the Cessna 172 I push the left stick a little back - not all the way back but say half way back - and hold it there until the plane has reached a little altitude

I then let go of the left stick and press gradual key presses of trim up I think - which should increase climb

I think this is correct

As I say when I use the controller on the Cessna 152 - I donā€™t have a problem taking off - but when I do exactly the same thing on the Cessna 172 - itā€™s very difficult to take off

It seems like you are suggesting the operation of the controller to take off on the Cessna 152 is exactly the same as it is on the Cessna 172 - but I am finding with identical controller operation - the Cessna 152 is easy to take off and the Cessna 172 is very difficult to take off

If this is this case than I might have a flight model issue on the Cessna 172

How do I make sure the Cessna 172 G1000 is set to modern and not legacy ?

All I do is select the Cessna 172 G1000 from the hangar - where all the planes are shown - thatā€™s it

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Left stick??

Aircraft control basics:

An aircraft flies because air flows over and under a wing, the shape of the wing causes the air on top of it to be faster than the air below the wing, so there is a lower pressure and it pulls the wing (and hence the aircraft) up.

To avoid the heavy nose dropping over there is the horizontal stabilizer in the back. It is shaped like a wing being flipped over, its airfoil causes a lower pressure below the stab and pulls the back of the plane down. To fly level the force of the stabilizer in the back equals the forve of the heavy nose pulling down. If you want to raise the nose up you need to increase the force pulling the back down. You do this by changing the shape of the airfoil of the horizontal stabilizer by pulling the elevator up. (Pull Stick/yoke towards your body). Vice versa to lower the nose.

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What are the exact controller and keyboard presses when I am at speed 60 on the runway just before taking off on the Cessna 172 - to achieve a good take off ?

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I have no idea what your setup is, I use a yoke, pedals and throttle quadrant. Thatā€™s why I explain the aerodynamical basics here. If you understand what you are supposed to do you can use your hardware accordingly. But there is little to no point to speak in key bindings when everyone uses a different setup. I have no idea about the keyboard shortcuts, never used them.

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I think itā€™s close to impossible to get a ā€œfeelā€ for aircraft flight dynamics using only keyboard presses for the primary flight controls. You would just have to experiment with it and fine tune the keypresses through trial and error. Itā€™s too easy to overcontrol by pressing too long or too many times, etc. I strongly suggest you at least get an XBox controller.

I also donā€™t know what you mean by ā€œlet goā€ or ā€œleft stick.ā€ The Cessna 172 uses a yoke, not a stick.

Also, to address your main question, I have no idea why the 172 should be that much more difficult to control than the 152. Itā€™s a bit heavier but other than that it should behave about the same.

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I have an X box controller, keyboard and mouse - no other external devices to play flight sim

When I mean let go of left stick - what I am saying is it is on the x box controller - the black knob that moves up down and left right on the x box controller

The one that is to the left of the controller is the one I want to know about ( not the one next to buttons X and A ) . You can see this on the image

What I am saying on the Cessna 172 - for this left stick - how I use it to take off

In my experience the Cessna 172 behaves very differently to the 152 when taking off - as the operation of the left stick on the Cessna 152 allows me to take off BUT the same operation on the Cessna 172 makes it difficult to take off

So something is wrong somewhere

There are two sticks on the x box - left and right in black circles

image
image1536Ɨ2048 121 KB

12

Ok, makes sense now. I ASSUME that you have several assistants active and further assume that they might treat the airplanes differently. It might be a good idea to turn them off, maybe except some autorudder. Then try again. I have absolutely no experience in flying with an xbox controller so I canā€˜t help much more. But if you like the sim beside the issues with the controls you might think about a joystick with a twist (z) grip. A larger way to move makes much preciser inputs possible.

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Not a pilot and I donā€™t often fly anything except gliders but when I do Iā€™m never trimming before flaps up. And I suggest you donā€™t take pressure off the stick in one go but gradually relieve it as you trim. Also check correct rpm, mixture etc.

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I am using the PC version. Not sure if the XBox version has the modern/legacy flight option but youā€™d find that in the General Options. It affects all aircraft so if youā€™re having no issue with the 152, I donā€™t think its an issue here.

What about other aircraft? i.eā€¦ the Bonanza. Any control issues there?

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I am with DensestSnail693 here. Do not just let go of the stick. Keep some backpressure on it until you gain some altitute. Then you reduct backpressure on the stick as you simultaneiously adjust trim. This will give you time to adjust trim so you donā€™t crash. Just letting go of the stick when you are too low, will just force the nose down so you crash. Not too much backpressure; just so your ariticial horizon indicator shows some blue (maybe a notch or two i.e. one or two horizontal lines of blue. Good luck. --Redye

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I find maneuvering Cessna 152 and 172 quite similar. I am talking about manual mode. I was wondering if there is a mapping issue. Maybe some controls are mapped incorrectly in the 172?

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This. Thereā€™s gotta be something. The 152 should actually be a bit easier to overcontrol than the 172.

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I canā€™t see any reference to the rate of climb in any other comments (might be there in which case I have missed them then). Itā€™s all very well to set a speed, trim etc but if you are trying to climb at 600ft per minute after takeoff then you are just stalling. So the question is what climb rate have you been using?

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A real Cessna 172 trimmed for takeoff will almost fly itself off the runway with very little pull on the yoke. You rotate at 55 kts and pitch for the desired airspeed. 75-85 kts normal climb out, or to be precise, Vx ( Best angle) 62 kts, or Vy (Best rate) of 74 kts. On a cool day best rate will return about 500-700 FPM, maybe more for the first part of the climb. In the real airplane I typically climb out at 85-90 kts as the lower nose attitude enables a better traffic scan and provides better airflow during our hot summer months.

@VexedTurnip8607, you mentioned G1000 172. There is also a ā€œsteam gaugeā€ 172 with traditional ā€œ6-packā€ gauges if you like that better.

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The Steam gauge 172 is not part of the standard MSFS 2020 package. It is Premium Deluxe.

As far as takeoff go. Experiment with flaps versus no flaps and try different rotate speeds. Try no flaps and rotating at 65 kts for example. Keep the nose down a little until you reach best climb speed which is going to be around 75 knots somewhere depending on your load). Do not try and climb out at 55 kts you risk dropping a wing.