VOR waypoints not tuned in G1000?

Discussion Hub General Discussion
1

Hi. So on the map screen, I have selected a bunch of VORs when I fly from one airport to another. The auto pilot in GPS mode is smart enough to change direction once it reaches a VOR, to head to the next VOR. All is fine if I keep the CDI to GPS mode.

However, I noticed that when I switch to VOR mode with the CDI button in the G1000, the direction to the next VOR does not match up to the direction I expect (ie. if the VOR is actually NW, the direction to the VOR in the G1000 may point East or something like that). So is it true that when you switch to VOR mode with the CDI, that you always have to manually tune the radio frequency of the VOR that you are flying to and that the radio frequency of the VOR your are flying to isn’t tuned by the G1000 automatically?

2

Yep, that’s correct. The world map only sets up the GPS route, if you want to fly VOR to VOR, you have to dial in manually and switch between the NAV radios (or temporarily to HDG) to switch to the next VOR.
Note that the CRS is not separate tor the NAV radios (it’s only used for the active NAV based on the CDI), so catching an intersection of two radials is not possible this way.

3 Likes
3

Thanks. I would have thought that the G1000 is smart enough to use autopilot navigate from one VOR to the next VOR (without using GPS and without you having to manually enter the VOR frequencies) but I guess it’s not that sophisticated.

4

Well, it’s rather too sophisticated. In the G1000 the GPS navigation is the way to go, using VORs is rather a fallback or helps for crosschecking.
There’s no need for the G1000 to tune in VORs if it’s using precise GPS routes.

2 Likes
5

That’s unfortunate. One of the things I found enjoyable in FS9 was lining up one VOR radial while waiting for the needle deflection on another VOR display when you hit an intersection. I suppose it is really impossible given that there is only one VOR display on the glass cockpit that can be viewed at a time.

I only did it in FS9 with the old Cessna that did not have a G1000. I wonder if it is still possible in FS2020 with the non G1000 Cessna.

6

Well you certainly can do that with the C152, but I guess both C172s are equipped for GPS primarily.
Let’s see if there’s going to be a mod or another implementation of the C172.

You could basically triangulate with the G1000 since you can see the direction of both VORs, but the radial for only one.
If you’re flying on the radial of one VOR and want to switch to another, no issue. But if you’re randomly trying to cath the intersection without being on one of the radials, thats a bit more work.

7

I do a LOT of flying using VOR only in the C172 G1000. I hide the map on the MFD and enable BRG1, BRG2 and DME on the PFD. Yes, you can only set one radial at a time but you have TWO arrows beside that radial, showing where the VORs are and for me it works perfectly fine. The mentioned radial deflection can be seen anyway this way (instead of setting the radial you simply wait until the arrow points at it). Situational awareness is good enough, even great. Lot of fun. Very rewarding to reach your destination this way.

Of course I’d rather had a C172 with a radiostack including a DME but it works well enough with the G1000 (even though it may seem odd to use the G1000 this way).

1 Like
8

Found out the non G1000 Cessna does not have DME. That’s why I switched to the G1000 version. Miss the Shift F2 ( I believe, in FS9 that brought up the 2d radio stack). Also miss the kneeboard where I could easily locate the Nav frequencies.

I will have to try this.

1 Like
9

Incidentally, but a bit off topic, do you know how to input the altitude on the Flight Plan on the G1000? I want to try some VNAV approaches. I expect the plane to not only turn to the direction of the waypoint but also to descend to preset altitudes at each waypoint in an approach. I wanted to try this method instead of the ILS method which works really well.

10

Don’t know how to set altitudes (don’t think you can right now) but shouldn’t the altitudes be loaded together with the RNAV approach…? They are part of it! But well, the G1000 is far from fully functional…

11

I will have to keep playing with VNAV. For some reason, the last flight plan I created put the altitudes in the G1000. However, the flight plan was created manually with waypoints leading to the runway. I used low altitude airways. This way there is no need to load an approach procedure since one has been created manually with proper altitudes. I still couldn’t get it to reduce altitude automatically though during approach.

On the flip side, I just completed an IFR flight using 2 VOR’s using the Cessna G1000.

Using the PFD and then selecting BRG1 and BRG2 cycles through displaying each of the two VORs. The display will show a fat arrow and a thin arrow corresponding to each one. The arrows don’t show the OBS setting for each of the VOR’s though. Instead they show the bearing to the VORs (Its called BRGx after all). I thought initially that I need to wait for the fat arrows and thin arrows to align to signal that I am on an intersection. The procedure I followed is as follows:

  1. Input Frequency for VOR1 in NAV1 and change the OBS to the outbound radial you need. Activate the frequency.

  2. Input the Runway localizer frequency on the NAV1 Standby Frequency.

  3. Input the frequency for VOR2 in Nav2 and change the OBS to the outbound radial you need to intercept VOR1’s outbound radial. Activate the frequency.

  4. Input your Heading using the Heading bug (Direction you wish to turn when you get to the intersection).

  5. Then take off. Press CDI to display VOR1. (This also sets the AP to follow VOR1 for navigation if you hit the AP NAV button). Hit AP and then NAV. The plane will align with VOR1 outbound radial you set. Turn off AP NAV.

  6. Once you are flying on VOR1 radial, press CDI button again to display VOR2. Now watch the needle. When it centers, you are at the intersection. Turn on AP HDG. The plane should turn in the direction you previously set.

  7. At this point I am ready to engage the localizer for landing so I switch NAV1 frequency to the preset stand by frequency which will give me the localizer. Interestingly, I didn’t have to do any OBS setting. It seems that the localizer will input the CRS heading to itself automatically.

I think at this point, either NAV or APR will work in the AP to line you up laterally. I think though you need to use APR at some point once you are close enough so that the AP will turn off Altitude Hold and initiate descent using the Glide Slope for a proper ILS landing.

In FS9, AP Nav only worked with Nav1. I wonder if it is the same with G1000.

1 Like
12

If you’ve planned the route You can use the Bearing soft keys To know when you’re approaching the next desired VOR radial, and when you’re there, hit the CDI key to change nav radios (which you’ve set up to next VOR of course!) and off you go. You’re going to have to stay ahead of the plane in changing nav radios, using alternating brg keys and getting the CDIs changed to upcoming radials. Busy first officer (you did bring one, didn’t you?).

13

LOL I didn’t even think about using CDI to switch to VOR2…! I always set and keep it on VOR1. I will give that a try though and see if the AP also follows VOR2 if you enable it with the CDI key. I think it should because when you set it to GPS it automatically follows the GPS line: in other words, the AP follows whatever you select with the CDI button.

But anyway, I have a few questions:

You don’t really need to switch to VOR2 to see if you are reaching the desired radial because the VOR2 needle will simply point at it (if you have BRG2 on screen). Of course you have to take note which end of the arrow you have to look at (inbound vs outbound).

And btw I always enable BRG1 even when I use VOR1 (and see the needle with deflection) because BRG1 constantly tells me on which radial I currently am, which is nice for situational awareness. (The same with BRG2, of course.)

OBS… you mean you set the course using the Course knob? You can’t do that before you made it the active freq and enabled VOR1 with CDI but you seem to set the radial before doing all that? Am I missing an OBS option somewhere…?

Why turn off NAV…? Why not keep on flying using NAV? And you can also fly inbound, of course. (Just adding that for those who are new to this. :wink: )

Doesn’t this let the AP move on VOR2…? And if so, won’t it intercept the desired radial while on NAV? Why switch to HDG in that case? And see my comment above about not needing to switch to VOR2 in order to see if you reached the desired radial.

14

As soon as you press the CDI button, the AP goes from NAV into LVL mode, this gives you time to select the correct NAV (VOR1/VOR2/GPS) and enable the NAV Mode again.
Just don’t forget to switch the AP back to NAV as you’ll overshoot otherwise.

1 Like
15

The particular scenario I used was approach VOR1 ( or leave, since inbound and outbound radial are 180 degrees apart and esssentially describe the same heading from the plane) along a VOR1 radial that intersects another radial of VOR2. I don’t really need to approach VOR2 but I do need to know when while traversing VOR1 radial, I happen to cross VOR2 radial. At that point, I need to turn West to the airport. Remember the needle aligns on the display regardless of which direction you are pointed as long as you are on the radial. The alignment sticks though if you are traversing along the radial, but it is momentary when you are simply crossing it.

Having VOR1 displayed with CDI and using AP NAV means that the plane will attempt to align with the VOR1 radial. Once aligned, I don’t need to change directions anymore except when I cross VOR2 radial. That’s why NAV can be turned off. In fact, I think it turned off automatically when I reached VOR1. Also,I am crossing VOR2 radial at somewhat of a perpendicular angle to the direction of the VOR2 radial I set.

So I presssed CDI to put VOR2 display up so I know when I am crossing it while I am aligned with VOR1 radial. As I said earlier, this is a momentary alignment.

Sorry I meant CRS when I said OBS. I’m used to the analog displays of the non G1000 Cessna.

If you turn on NAV while the CDI displays VOR2, it might try to align the plane with the VOR2 radial which is not my intention. Never tried NAV on VOR2. In the non G1000 Cessna, NAV only followed VOR1.

My intention is to tell the AP to turn to a particular heading, in this case West to the airport when I am at the intersection of the two radials.

Alternatively the scenario can be played out by simply watching BRG1 and BRG2, I think. BRG1 (VOR1 bearing) would be aligned with the plane heading as you are traversing that radial. Just be aware of wether you are leaving or approaching it. Then watch BRG2 to see it approach the angle of the radial from VOR2 that you need to cross while on VOR1 radial. When your bearing to both VORs are the respective radials you set with CRS, you are at the intersection. It is more fun to watch the needle though.

I did all the CRS presets and the Nav frequency presets before flying. I think I have connection to the VORs immediately. The only thing on standby was the LOC on the arrival airport. That CRS seemed to be automatically there.

Screenshot (428)
Screenshot (428)1898×826 978 KB

The left turn to the airport is the point of intersection between VOR2 (GIJ) 114 radial and VOR1 (GSH) 347 radial. GIJ is directly North of the airport. The intersection is called NORNA.

16

Great and interesting post! I like this kind of flying and there is always something new to learn about it. :wink:

Yep, that’s what I was trying to say indeed!

That clears up a few of the questions I had. :wink: You weren’t posting in general but were talking about a specific situation.
BTW When you reached VOR1 (the picture shows you planned to fly straight over it) the AP may have appeared to be turned off or did something odd but that (probably) had to do with the ‘cone of confusion’ where you lose contact with the VOR because you are above/to close to it. Whenever a turn in a flightplan has me flying straight over a VOR I usually try to cut the corner a bit (fly in HDG mode pointing between where the VOR is and where the next radial is) so I won’t lose contact. (The turn on your plan is too shallow to cut though: I would switch to HDG for a moment there.)

17

It would be awesome to try flying IFR without having to use the VFR map and not look out the window at all, and no ATC guidance from start to finish and without using the GPS. Just look at a skyvector map and figure your location using the bearings and a ruler and pencil and judge radial angles with a protractor. Lets say you just woke up in the middle of the flight at some random location. Both yokes broken from a scuffle. And your co pilot is passed out ( no AI assist). But the copilot was able to input the frequencies for nearby VORs before he passed out. How did I get here, you think? Who am I? I know how to fly this plane? I must be a pilot or… a flight simmer? Oh, I got a keyboard and mouse, definitely a flight simmer! And I mapped joystick button 2 for taking screenshots? And why does scrolling make me happy? Press E to cast Igni. Wait wrong game.

For an added level of difficulty, don’t use DME. Perhaps a bit of dead reckoning using a timer and some math. In that scenario, even the cone of confusion could be informative. And pretend the HDG mode does not work in your AP. You can only use VOR’s to establish your direction, changing to the appropriate outbound radial or switching to another VOR to make a turn using NAV. Just use elevator trim to adjust your pitch. Throttle still working. I wonder if such a flight is possible.

18

With the C152 it certainly is. :wink: But I know I would have a hard time reaching my destination this way! I like flying with VOR only but I do need a DME and prefer an AP. I like my hobby to be a bit fun too and not only frustrating. :wink:

19

VNAV doesn’t work otherwise just use the big knob of the fms button to get the cursor on the right position and then the small button to enter any altitude