VR rumour?

I own DK2, CV1,Quest,GO,Rift S,Oddysey Plus and Reverb G1.

I don’t have any noticable SDE in the last 3 headsets listed. Not sure what software titles folks are using but I VR sim on FSX w/Flyinside Injection
2X resolution multiplier upsample, 120 degree FOV and 4X MSAA. Dials are clearly readable and SDE isn’t even something I remember unless I throw on the DK2,CV1,GO or Quest.

I’ve used all 3 other headsets with my FSX setup and surprisingly i get the best most crisp image from the Rift S the O+ has great colors and the Reverb has a beautiful image also but there is just something distinct about the Rift S pixel arrangement/pattern that simply just looks better than the rest in terms of clarity.

The view in my hmd isn’t that much less sharp than the 2d mirror image output in my videos.
Also the DA62 from Carenado is one of the most beautiful stereoscopic 3d visual experiences I’ve ever had…when I first sat in the cockpit in VR I was stuck there for 5 minutes just staring at the leather seats texture in 3d :heart_eyes:
The 2D video honestly doesn’t do it any justice and yes I physically climbed out of the cockpit and stood in front of the plane.

So yea I guess we just all have different eyes and experiences in VR or maybe its my particular vr injection because Flyinside gives me a great crisp visiuals in FSX where I can read all guages clearly and even lookin down at the terrain and make out every ground object without any eye strain.

I see so many gripes that people feel VR “just isn’t there yet”
Starting to feel people just aren’t knowledgeable of visual tweaking and using the technology to its fullest. Or they just never had a fully prepared PCVR experience.
I can do everything without removing the hmd thanks to leapmotion virtual hands, and the cool import virtual windows into cockpit options.
I even browse these forums,discord and youtube inside the cockpit on long flights.

Flyinside devs…Tony and Dan if you are here on these forums, just wanna say thank you for such underrated software its the best most feature filled VR flight sim experience I’ve head yet over native XP11 and P3D.

Anxious to see if Microsoft/Asobo can exceed these VR features and implementations. Till then I have no reason to go back to flying through the monitor.

I can see making this work by using a Honeycomb Alpha yoke without binding the switches and a set of rudder pedals. I don’t really need tactile feedback for switches, but I rely heavily on it when I’m using the yoke, not out of necessity per se, but out of wanting to keep the feeling real, and without having friction or resistance on the yoke or pedals, it’s just not going to be very immersive. I the flip side, I don’t need to look at the yoke or the rudder pedals - just use them.

Can anyone comment from experience on whether or not the resolution of the G2 is going to be good enough to read the instrument panels and maybe even use the G1000 properly (given it gets fixed etc.)?

This is my setup

Ch Eclipse Yoke, Hotas and Saitek Cessna Pedals

It took me 2 weeks to muscle memory everything.
Plenty of buttons to map to the point I still have a couple free buttons leftover.
Between virtual windows imports,clickable cockpit buttons either via vr hands or cursor dot aimer and all my mapped yoke/stick/throttle buttons.
I never feel a need to have to take off the VR headset.

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This works on 2020?

What rig are you running? Dual SLI gfx cards?

1080ti/8700K
32GB RAM

The key is how well they optimize VR for the sim. For example, X-Plane 11 never much impressed me with VR. IL-2 Great Battles on the other hand - very good. Just my opinion. I extremely rarely, if ever, fly IL-2 in 2D at all anymore now that I’ve got the Rift-S. Hopefully MSFS 2020 can provide that same level of optimization for VR.

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Well they’ve already talked a big game about not being impressed with any current VR implementation of a flight sim…so now they gotta fill it🤣

Lets see…

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Yup. I’ll tell ya hopefully Oculus can keep forging ahead I love the inside-out tracking. Now if they can really bump up the resolution and peripheral vision that would be sweet.

Also would like to see MSFS 2020 eventually go to DX12 implementation.

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Eye tracking alongside foveated rendering would be a big step forward, as it would save processing power for the GPU having to render unnecessary detail in the user’s peripheral vision.

This released processing power could be used to help render the more central areas or just be saved.

VR is there, but IMO pixel density is the one thing that still has a way to go.
As mentioned the current model I have and those I’ve tried don’t have bad screen door effect, but I can very clearly see pixels and sometimes they happen to be preventing me from reading things, and things just don’t look as good and fine as I’d like them to.

When coming from large “retina” displays I just wish displays in VR were that fine and life-like. Would probably require about 10MP per eye, and obviously the monstrous processing requirements that would come with it.

I’ve got a G2 backordered.

I definitely still get a screen door effect with the Odyssey Plus. It is less prominent than with the CV1, but it is still there. However for me, the difference is worth it compared to the CV1. So yes, maybe some peoples eyes/brains work differently and they notice the SDE more or less.

Even with ’ finetuning’ the amount of pixels and screentype does not change with oversampling and, there is nothing you can do to ‘finetune’ pure hardware limitations.

In Iracing (for example), I can read dials/dashbboard much better with the Odyssey Plus compared to the CV1 due to the better resolution and quality of the panel, I don’t have to lean in anymore to be able to read them. I did use a lot of oversampling with the CV1, but a better panel makes the much more of a difference.
Also lines in the distance are less vague compared to the CV1. But, still, I clearly see pixels and I find distant lines/objects are much less clear compared to how these appear on a good 1440p monitor.

So the Odyssey Plus has a better screen and it suits me for most purposes at the moment, but it is definitely not perfect and all there. The tracking is ok, the controllers I don’t care much for but I don’t use them at all mostly (CV1 controllers are better though) and after some adjustments (extra strap, change the padding) the fit is fine as well (CV1 was better). The sweet spot of the lenses is quite a bit smaller compared to the CV1 (looking out of the corner of your eyes produces a vague image, only the center is clear), but I do get used moving my head around more and looking more at the center, instead of moving my eyes around.
I find the Oculus software was more user friendly than the WMR software, but I hate that Oculus yet again forces to make use of yet another library/streaming platform and is not compatible with Steam (out of the box). Besides that, I am not much of a fan of Facebook and rather not need to use Facebook accounts in able to run and buy software.

Untill now, every HMD has it’s plusses and minuses and they all make compromises on different departments (either panel, tracking, fit, lenses, controllers, limited adjustable IPD ranges or software).

And I agree: it takes a lot of tweaking and finetuning to get the most out of it, which I see as another minus: I don’t mind tweaking a bit, but that is definitely not something for everyone. Most people prefer just to put an HMD on their head, maybe plug in a cable and install some software once, than expect it to run optimal, out of the box. Cabling is another thing which definitely can be improved, wireless setup would be preferable for most people. And than there is also the hardware requirements to get it to run optimal.

I’ve yet to find a VR set which performs much above average regarding all of these aspects, let alone for an affordable price.

So, despite how much I like VR (and I like it a lot) I do find VR ‘just isn’t there yet’. It is definitely not for the masses (yet), and even most enthusiasts and people who are ’ knowledgeable of visual tweaking’ find there is much to improve, despite what HMD you own or what software/hardware used and how much time spend on fine tuning. It is getting better and better though and the experience and immersion is great.

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On the flip side I’d say Pixel Density is almost there (Reverb G1 user here), bigger FOV is the next big thing that’s needed for Racing/Flight Sims as it’s still too narrow. Plus then add in all the multitude of other potential additions & tweaks but for the most part I agree that VR is “there” right now.

I highly advise that you start tuning your gaming Rig, especially the OS, in preparation for VR.
If you’re running Win10 without having optimized it you’re not only slower today, you’ll have a tough time in VR. Non-Optimized Win10 gives upwards of 30% at points in your processes to MSFT, as well as having in-game stutters when processes you don’t need kick off and zap cycles randomly.

The VR4DCS blog & Discord has tuning meant for Reverbs in DCS, but guess what? Works fantastically for FS2020 or flat screeners. You won’t need the SteamVR parts unless you need it for other sims.

Also, you’ll very much want 32 GB of RAM in VR, don’t skimp. Sure it “will” run in 16 GB, runs a LOT better with an optimized Rig and 32 GB. The VR requirements are vast in DCS, and they’ve worked through most of the Rig optimizations to make that a smooth experience. Use the knowledge to get started for FS2020.

If you’re using a Reverb today and haven’t been through the setup, likely you aren’t getting the full native resolution of the Reverb and clarity. It’s more technical of a setup today than we want. Hopefully the updated WMR with the MSFT/Valve/HP teaming makes it more out of the box clear.

If you’re headed for a 30xx card, you’ll need the added RAM to not bottleneck. If your processor is already lower end, that’ll likely need upgraded too. VR stresses each level of your Rig and running at a minimum spec if you want all the clarity of a Reverb, means upgrades. CV1 or Rift S, probably not so much given less than half the pixels to push as a Reverb.

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I can’t agree that the Rift S has anywhere near the clarity of a Reverb.
I can only guess the Reverb hasn’t been optimized if that seems to be the case.
It could also be the mura the Reverb has. It causes a light dirt-smeared view for some, while others barely see it. Fixed in G2.

I own CV-1, O+, Lenovo WMR, PIMAX 5k+, Rift S, Reverb G1 - the differences in view are striking.

My point isn’t to argue against a perspective, as perspectives differ especially in VR. I only mean to suggest the G1 may not be fully tuned. The physical capabilities differ so greatly, you should definitely expect a greater difference between them, and there is when optimized.

Rift S at 1280x1440 80Hz can’t get nearly the clarity of text and gauge reading of a Reverb.
Reverb at 2160x2160 90Hz is very clear in VR Sims.

A Rift S is the big Easy Button in VR. Acceptable view for Sims, well priced, easy software to use.
The Reverb is Clarity King, but you deal with the less than magical process of WMR/SteamVR setup and tuning for most Sims.
Def a trade-off there.

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In term of pixel density / definition, the Pimax 8kx is a blast, even with no supersampling (and with impressive fov)…hopefully, the new RTX30x0 generation of GPU will be able to run all thes pixels!!

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Presbyopia can come in different degrees of severity depending on how old you are and whether you have had cataract surgery, etc. Being almost 75 now and having had cataract surgery (natural lenses removed and replaced by fixed “infinite” focal length plastic lenses), I have reasonably severe presbyopia. I need a diopter correction of at least +2.5 OD to focus on things close up and about +1.25 OD to see things 3 to 5 ft. away clearly.

We got a kiddie VR science kit for the holidays for our grandkids that uses a smartphone inserted in a set of goggles. There, the image on the smartphone screen is very close to my eyes and unless I wear full lens reading glasses or use a smartphone VR headset offering diopter correction, the 3D image generated is very blurry for me, e.g. helicopter flying thousands of feet over an active volcano.

Perhaps high-end VR goggles are more flexible in how they generate the image. This two-year old Reddit post on an Oculus discussion forum claims most high-end VR images are presented as if they are at least 1.5 m (6 ft) away (actually, 4.9 ft) and if you can see clearly at that distance with presbyopia (and/or hyperopia - far-sightedness), you’ll be able to wear a high-end VR headset without any further correction. And the post claims, just as I found for the kiddie smartphone VR headset, that wearing reading glasses under the headset with a + OD correction will help if you have really bad eyes. kwx comments on VR for Presbyopia users? (reddit.com) (have to click “View Entire Discussion,” then “Continue This Thread,” to see kwx’s comments in their entirety).

So sometime in the New Year, I’ll have to give it a try and see how clearly high-end VR goggles work for me with and without some + OD diopter help.

Edit_Update: I see back on September 3rd, Kilrahvp also mentioned being able to focus at least down 2 to 3 m as the critical distance but I’d forgotten and have since looked up my prescription. Looks like I’m in danger of crossing that distance threshold. VR rumour?

Update02: Found a video by Sebastian Ang on what size glasses will fit inside Reverb G2. Also mentions the possibility of 3rd-party lens adapters to add to G2 lenses: https://youtu.be/C_u7xiJRQME

Varjo just released it’s new versions: https://varjo.com/products/vr-3/

It’s clearly focusing on professional use, however with the pricing halved to ~4k EUR it might get interesting for flightsim enthusiasts. The perrformance is a blast, it’s center has a ‘human eye resolution’. However, I’m not sure if a 3080 or 3090 could really run MSFS with that high resolution…

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