We want more realism for Fliers and Legends

Give us more realism to your Legends and Fliers. Engine management and mistreatment consequences are bare minimum to call the plane simulated. Payware addons highlighted how shollow are MS planes.
ps And fix failures on xbox once and for good.

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One thing hampering that perhaps is that I suspect their are requested to match a certain price. I’m not sure how they quantify how well developer a $15 plane over a $25 one would be, but that’s what it feels like to me. Perhaps not money, but time, but then time is money as they say.

Running a search of the unofficial web based marketplace for “Microsoft / Inibuilds”, all planes but one are $14.99, the exception being the AN-225 at $19.199, so that looks pretty much like a price point was chosen.

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There is some contradiction in giving us engine stress option in setting and giving “rubberish” engine planes… :thinking::-1:

so allow realistic mods in marketplace

As in Community addons? Or allow Marketplace planes to be modded?

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What really surprise me (or maybe it does not), that even the most basic ERRORS in Microsoft / Asobo planes are getting through whatever QC they may have in progress.

Currents, of the MS ones I own, or came with the sim, 4 have duplicate entries in their .cfg files, something that should not happen in a plane developed with the SDK, and if it does happen, is CLEARLY shown in the Dev Mode Console !!

Seems MS devs just don’t care anymore, or are becoming increasingly lax, and MS QC is not picking up thees simple errors, even though they are RIGHT IN YOUR FACE !@!

Maybe those errors do not really matter to the operation of the sim, but it only took me a few minutes to fix them, even though it did mean editing core Sim files, that will potentially be overwritten again in a future update,

To me, the Goal should be ZERO Detected errors … but I do not come from GAME development environment… :smirk:

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A plane released on a certain date, perhaps to coincide with an event, or to fit a relatively fixed release schedule.

  1. QA find a ton of bugs (you would hope!)
  2. They feed this back to the developer
  3. The release date approaches, and an updated package has not been provided
  4. Plane released as is

I wonder how often that has happened, and that is assuming that 1, and 2 even happen. I seem to remember reading that the planes are checked for certain things, like nothing offensive, and don’t just crash the sim. They probably don’t open the console to look for errors, and might consider that job to be something the developer should have done themselves.

People often mock Star Citizen, with it’s near continuous announcements of new concept planes aka cash for JPEG’s, and I see some parallels here, with some major differences.

There is a seeming focus on releasing something on a future date, populating that calendar with upcoming releases, and not enough focus on quality. The streamers that are then promoting those products has never sat well with me, especially if they are being paid to do so, and don’t explicitly state this on their VOD or live stream description.

addons of course, I’m on xbox… :smirk:

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That’s just not going to happen at the $14.99 price point (or $9.99 for PD owners).

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Agreed, and therein lies the disappointment.

“Cool, someone is making a Dornier 228!”
“Oh, its a local legend.”

They are what they are, but I hope every time one of these comes out it’s not a popular plane that the community have been asking for because it will be built to fit the $14.99 price point. Which was exactly my thought process when I saw the Twin Otter in the 2024 trailer.

There is also the unknown quantity of how much this would put off another developer from releasing a perhaps higher fidelity version of it. It may even cause them to abandon work on an existing one, which I think has already happened once before.

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It’s Asobos MO to bias a planes fidelity to accessibility over realism. I can’t imagine how many xbox players would appreciate having to flip through a zillion switches and buttons using a controller just to do one thing. Not saying its not feasible as we have planes like the 737 on the marketplace and available for xbox.

Pretend youre a Microsoft executive in their corner office in Seattle. Would you rather sell 1000 copies of a $15 plane to casuals and hardcore simmers or sell 100 $50 planes to hardcore enthusiasts?

Some developers can afford to delay a release on a product for any reason. As Hobanagerik mentioned, some planes have a fixed released date because someone decided it had to be released on a given day for whatever marketing reason the C-suite deemed necessary. Lead dev comes up and says “it’s not ready” but C-suite don’t care. Just release it as early access and charge another $20 when its actually finished. We’d all love a product with no errors, but not everyone is willing to wait for the time it takes to find and fix those errors. Can you imagine the 777 being released two weeks ago and the outrage people would have because they found a single thing that isn’t realistic enough? or something?

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Whether you like it or not, the Famous Flyers and Local Legends series are deliberately positioned as affordable, entry-level options. In this segment we’ll probably never see advanced features such as failure simulation or even EFBs and extra visual options. Asobo stated several times that they position these aircraft deliberately to not compete with higher-tier third-party developers. More advanced aircraft can be developed by third-parties if they wish. But these Asobo series are deliberately what they are.

My bigger gripe with these planes is that their bugs are rarely fixed or updated. Most of them are “release and forget” products, which even at these low prices is not really acceptable for me.

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This is understandable.

What isn’t, is the lack of timely follow-up fixes.

Or “release and get back to it a year+ after it was released.”

I didn’t start this thread for no good reasons:

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That would probably involve a cash injection of some kind to the third party, though I hope that would have been included in the contract they signed with MS, like having to support the plane for a number of years after its release, with no additional funding.

The sim changes over time, and the planes do not, and its kind of revealing when you do go back to an older plane that you know hasn’t been touched in ages after flying a brand new release, and you see how far not only the sim has come, but also developers understanding of the SDK, and what is actually possible.

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Many of the bugs, though, aren’t bugs that have come about due to changes in the simulator, but were present at release of the aircraft.

And, yes, if they are going to continue to sell these aircraft in the Marketplace to, presumably, users of MSFS who have purchased the sim well after the release date of the LL/FF, then I’d expect those people wouldn’t want to, unknowingly, purchase an “outdated” aircraft that isn’t compatible with the very simulator that is branded the same as the LL/FF they just purchased.

The implied is that the products sold in the Marketplace work with the sim in its current state. There isn’t a sell by date on the goods sold there.

If they aren’t compatible, stop selling them.

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We have mouse and keyboards too. As well as HOTAS’, Yoke and rudders… this equating Xbox members to causal simmers and PC members as core simmers is getting SO OLD.

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One of the unforeseen bonuses of switching from an Xbox pilot to a PC pilot was being freed from this wretched ball and chain.

I wish I could offer a hacksaw.

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Not to mention that even with just a controller you have the same functionality as with a mouse. It’s a bit more cumbersome and definitely slower but the world of aviation is not about rushing things. I have 1500+ flight hours with nothing but an Xbox controller and I can operate even the most complex airliners without too much effort.

And as you said, the console also offers mouse, keyboard and all kind of flight peripheral support to anyone needing them.

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Oh I’m coming to the errr darkside? Soon.

But on topic, I only own the BeechCraft V35B because I love it, Always have! And it needs work; there are known issues with the autopilot altitude selector.

I also own the Ford Trimotor because it was free when it was first made available. I think I flew in it once.

I don’t understand the selection process for some of these aircraft. Do they have to be over 50 years old to get the “licensing” easier? Did they all have to be the most cumbersome flying boats? I can’t tell you how upset I was when it was announced to get a Helicopter local legend… that fell flat on its face, the whole WU Caribbean was a problem. I’m also not a fan of inibuilds living up to their name literally will accept any build.

I have to say that I know I must be in the minority here. My only gripe about the flying boats is the poor implementation for C&D, available water runways and water-based physics. If they sort that in 2024, I will definitely be purchasing the ones that I passed on.

The way I see it is these (and he’s said as much on dev Q&As) LL/FF are a passion project for Jörg, and more power to him for all of the ones that he has chosen. I am a huge fan of Jörg and see so much of my own personality traits in him. He seems like a kindred spirit, for sure.

The last flying boat was, what, the Dornier Do X? The sheer vitriol about “whaaaaa another flying boat?!?!” was nauseating.

The reactions of people as if they signed up for a pre-paid subscription to these and/or that these are some sort of paid included content is obnoxious. They are optional aircraft and that means if you don’t like what is being offered optionally don’t cry about it, simply pass on it. Microsoft doesn’t owe us anything on what aircraft these are going to be.

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