Why the Career Mode Weather System Doesn't Work and How to Make it Better

I’ve been on a personal quest to figure out what’s going on with the weather in career mode. If you don’t want to read this whole thing, it’s safe to say the current career weather system is bad for so many reasons.

BAD UI

First of all, the time selector in career mode is pretty clunky UI, as are the infamous red dots that appear on the mission icons. The only time they are meaningful is when the time slider is set to the mission time. This will only happen if it is daytime in the area in which you are flying, because there are no night flights (I assume because many airports don’t have lights and it’d be a major hassle). UPDATE: this was edited as I found some meaning to the time slider/red-dot UI, explained in a later post below.

I have flown dozens of missions and written and taken screenshots of my observations. In every case I’ve observed, no matter where the time slider is, no matter if a red dot is present or not, it is loading the historic weather that matches the set-place mission departure time, sometime in the past 24 hours. I found that the in-sim weather matched the historical weather with greater than 90% accuracy, and I’d expect some give and take for interpolation, interference, or lack of resolution (which is fine because weather is dynamic, anyway). When the slider is set to “live” and has a red-dot, it’s only because the preset mission time is also happening right now, so the weather will coincidentally be real-time. The live/red-dot combination is basically only an indicator that it will use live, current weather, not a determinant.

The weird thing about the slider/red dot is that the dot will appear whenever the slider is set at the mission start time out to about 2 hours later, so it will modulate the mission start time to the slider, within an hour or so window, as long as the dot is there. But this seems to be pretty meaningless for weather - it’s still going to load it within that window. And sometimes the dot randomly disappears as you move the slider. But other than that, the entire presentation of the dot is useless. (Update - slightly less useless, as explained in a later post).


NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION

In an operational sense, the sim is not giving you enough weather information. Here’s what they give you in the briefing screen:

  • The categorical conditions (VFR/MVFR/IFR/LIFR) at the airport pair
  • Departure and arrival times in local time (not UTC - we’ll come back to that)
  • A weather icon for departure and arrive that tells you if it’s sunny or not
  • The visibility in NM (should be SM)
  • The temperature in °F (should be °C in aviation, always)

What’s missing:

  • Everything else, most notably forecast wind at the airports, and the entirety of the enroute weather.

The implications of this are obvious at face value - people are launching into very poor weather (see wind) without being informed. But the kicker is that it’s really hard to know what you’re getting into, especially in some parts of the world - it takes a lot of work and understanding that the sim isn’t providing, during the boreal winter, which is a really tough time of year to fly for many of us. (Update - it actually is providing a big picture as discussed below (though still kind of clunky and not enough info, but good for a start)).


MAKING GOOD DECISIONS

Preflight planning is critical. It involves aircraft performance, hazardous weather and terrain, usability of airports, fuel and payload to name a few. We’ve established the sim alone doesn’t give you enough information. Categorical conditions and temps, when reliable, are only a small part of the picture. What’s the number one complaint right now? Wind. And suffice it to say there’s a lot more that you’re not getting in that quick glance, at least not enough to make a good “go” decision.

But more broadly, when faced with using realistic weather, when a person starts to look at missions, a reasonable approach is to choose an area to “work.” By this, I mean taking a broad overview look at a weather map and deciding “looks pretty good in this area, I’ll fly here.”

But remember above, where I said the missions only use the historic weather at the scheduled mission start time? This means you might have to check the historic weather for an hour to 24 prior, which is obviously dynamic, always changing for each individual mission. And the mission planner is not filterable and sortable, so when you do finally find a mission that looks decent, you have to look at the mission start time, convert it to UTC (which takes time and understanding), then go into archive mode at your weather resource, if it has it (I use aviationweather.gov and look at the historic weather for that time.

This might be a fairly easy task for a singular mission, especially if both airports have a nearby METAR and TAF (they often do not). You may get lucky and it happens to work. But say you get 15 minutes into checking the weather and discover it’s a no-go. Maybe you discover that the winds aloft are crazy headwinds and the already-scant fuel you’re given just isn’t going to cut it, or there are low ceilings at a non-instrument airport, etc. If that happens, you have now have wasted that entire time and have to pick another airport pair and start planning from scratch, likely at a completely different time. It completely negates the idea of getting one weather overview based on one set time (be it live or otherwise) and making a decision. Getting multiple “big-picture” overviews and drilling down to multiple specific historic weather instances for multiple airport pairs, for different airplanes, is absolutely frustrating for any user.

This leads to one of three decision-making scenarios:

  1. A pilot gathers some historical weather information for the scheduled mission time using outside resources, it looks decent, and it’s a go - they fly the mission, hopefully successfully
  2. A pilot jumps into the mission fairly blindly - just using what the sim gave them. Maybe they see the weather is awful during preflight and choose to abort. Maybe they takeoff - that’s up to them. If they do fly, maybe it works out all the way to the end, maybe it doesn’t. This requires a lot of blind luck to pull off successfully.
  3. A pilot gathers some historical weather information for that time, but it looks poor and they decide not to go.

Scenario 1 will lead to the best-case outcomes, but it takes understanding, work, and a lot of luck to not spend a ton of time searching and (re)planning.

Scenario 2 has the biggest opportunity for worst-case outcomes and is by far what most people seem to experience and get frustrated with. They’re rarely getting the current weather, especially if they’re flying at night - they’re getting what it was. Finding a complete, useable resource for that is difficult enough in the US, but nearly impossible in some other places. But understanding all the things that are important to understand, well, the sim isn’t teaching anybody that.

Scenario 3 is a cluster. After aborting and going back out to the menu, the pilot has to select and vet an entirely different mission that is most likely specified at an entirely different time and place. So all the weather they just looked at in the no-go mission is moot - they are starting over from scratch. And they haven’t even flown yet. This is incredibly time-consuming and, to reiterate, very frustrating.


BETTER OPTIONS

In the end, it would be better to give us the choice to use one of three options:

  1. Using current, live weather, no matter the scheduled mission time
  2. Using the historical weather within the past 24h at the mission start time, as it is now, but again - completely optional (this so you’re not stuck with only poor “live” weather)
  3. Using a weather preset (including clear or custom), which could arguably incur an easy-mode normalization of credits earned

Again, I have a feeling we’re locked into using specific time ranges because they don’t want to let us fly at night for several reasons. So many of us will never truly use real-time “live” weather when flying in our home regions. But since “live” weather is actually historical weather locked to the mission time anyway, we’re stuck using it and trying to figure out what it is giving us.


REPRODUCING RESULTS

I would love if somebody would replicate the results of my findings. I’d hate for you to just take my word for it and I want to know if I missed something. Here’s a snippet of my methodology if you want to replicate:

  1. Choose a career-mode mission within the US, preferably between an airport pair that has an AWOS/ATIS or uses METAR. It also is nice if you use a plane with a G1000 or similar, or have a tool you can use to read winds aloft.
  2. Take note of the mission start time and convert it to UTC
  3. In a browser window, set up at least two instances of aviationweather.gov (avwx) - one set to live time, the other set to the archive view at the scheduled mission start time, converted to UTC, within the past 24h. If you set the sim time slider to anything other than “live” (far right), open a third instance of avwx set to the archive at that UTC time.
  4. Launch into the mission and pull up the AWOS (or whatever other tool) to get a snapshot of the current in-sim weather. Take note of the in-sim winds, altimeter, temp/dewpoint should be enough. Compare this to “observations” on the METARs at the various avwx instances
  5. When you’re ready to depart, set the avwx instances to wind aloft forecasts - make sure you set the slider to the nearest altitude above the airport. As you climb through those altitudes, note the winds aloft in the sim (using the cockpit indicator or whatever tool) and compare to each of the avwx instances. Do this again at 3,000’ intervals until you get to cruise.
  6. Do this again at 3000’ intervals during descent. Make sure you change the time slider in the avwx instance of historical weather to reflect the current mission time (derived from the aircraft clock, make sure to use UTC) along the way. If you don’t, you’re looking at only the weather at departure time. The “live” avwx instance will continue to update automatically as you go.
  7. Then compare the weather at the arrival airport to the latest METAR in each avwx instance (remember to set the time slider in the “historical” avwx instance to the current mission time)

Notes: this works for the US, it works better in more isolated areas where multiple METARs don’t interfere with another, causing interpolation, and it does to an extent rely on those METAR for verifiability - it’s hard to pin down other kinds of forecasts with reliability, but comparing METAR made it very clear. It also doesn’t take into account any bugs, it doesn’t account for whether this existed prior to patch 3 or if it was introduced then, and cloud cover was not part of the study.


OTHER FINDINGS (IN PROGRESS)

A couple other things I may have discovered:

  • The winds aloft may not be converting properly to/from magnetic and true. The headings shown in the sim, as verified by the in-sim indicator and LittleNavMap are always off by about the amount of local magnetic variation compared to the winds aloft headings on avwx (given in true, and I’m doing the conversion - it’s almost like it’s applied backwards). This could just be spatial/temporal interpolation, and again, a little variation is okay. But it’s pretty consistently off the same amplitude and direction, which is raising a red flag. Maybe I’m just lucky. More testing is needed.
  • Possibly related: the wind indicator in some (maybe all) aircraft is not displaying wind properly. For instance, last night I was flying a mission in the X-Cub and the wind indicator said winds at 144° magnetic, but when I put the nose of the aircraft to 144 magnetic, the indicator arrow showed a crosswind component. It did not show straight winds until I flew a heading of 133, a difference of 11° (it was a little gusty, so hard to lock on exactly). The local mag variation was about 10°E. More testing also needed.
  • There’s also one more thing that needs more testing: I think the ATC/AI may be making routing and runway decisions based on real-time live weather rather than historical, no matter what anything is set at. It’s a hypothesis at this point, but I’ve noticed a few times where the historical weather in the sim correctly has the wind howling down the runway for the mission time, but it wants me to take off with that as a tailwind. Current real-world live weather showed conditions that favor the runway the ATC/AI expects (the storm moved on, for instance), but of course did not match historical weather.

Anyway, good luck. Hopefully we can affect some change for the better!

UPDATE: I found some meaning to the time slider/red-dot UI, explained in a later post below.

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I had no idea this was actually how it worked, which is live weather all the time. I just loaded into KPBI in a medivac mission where today they got some rain, and at a 2:30pm mission time I was seeing the same weather as the METAR data today from 2:30pm. You are right that it is presented in such a confusing way, and I think the help popup that is given to you when you get the IFR rating states that the red dots are the only real weather missions. They should definitely explain that it’s using historic weather all the time if that is their intention.

Just tested something else out, looks like it depends on the mission type. Just loaded a First Flight mission nearby and it looks like it’s using the Few Clouds preset.

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Yes, thanks for reminding me:

A big caveat - this isn’t for pre-IFR certification and doesn’t apply to the on-rails weather preset missions like First Flight and the “Gold-Stamp” missions that unlock specializations. The weather that bugs out in those is still unknown to me.

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Wow, wow and wow! :salute: :australia:
Your observations, investigation, analysis and report is excellent and in line with the scientific method. well done! :white_check_mark:

Thank you for the work you’ve put into this.
If proven by others, then you’ve discovered bugs :beetle:in the system that need to be reported in the “Bug Reporting” thread. Perhaps the excellent moderators will pick up on this and move it to there, but I’m not holding my breath for that to happen… :slightly_smiling_face:

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Thanks very much for this post. I’m glad it isn’t just me that’s confused about the career weather and times.
Recently I’ve been using the world map and filtering for wind to see where its calmest then picking a mission around there if I can. Some areas are generally windier than others of course. Plus I’ve ‘cheated’ by adding auto rudder to help me out with landings in case I get given a tricky landing (which has happened too frequently and not ended well). My recent flights have been smoother possibly for both of the above reasons, but I’d appreciate being able to properly plan for the weather so I can venture into other areas and be a bit more confident the weather is manageable. My main confusion has been with the career mission time/date and how that relates to the weather in that location, and of course where I can get that weather information from and be sure it correlates. I’m still trying to get my head around it all. I appreciate the time you’ve put into trying to figure it out. :+1:t2:
Quick edit to this:
I re-read your main post and put a bit more time into it. I’m going to have a play aroud with this later and see if I can recreate your results, If you’re right then it would at least remove the issue that was bugging me to do with UTC and what ‘Live’ weather really is (oh and why it was always daylight - this was a real confusing one!) . Even if it’s still a fiddle, I’d feel a bit more comfortable knowing that it isn’t all just random! :joy:

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Very good post and you are correct. Getting the weather information even before you accept the mission is a must.

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Breaking - I may have discovered an in-sim resource that helps with wind and weather. I will test this on my stream tonight and report findings here tonight or tomorrow. More to come…

If you want - the stream is at 9:30et/0230z here.

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Just watched your stream. :+1:t2:
You’ll definitely helped me tie things together. I was using the wind layer on the world map to see where was calm but hadn’t figured out the times properly.
I agree with what you said on the stream, there’s just no info explaining any of this and it’s been down to the community to figure it all out. I just happened upon the map filtering for the weather but hadn’t thought about moving the slider to match mission time etc.
We’re getting there though!

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Thanks for watching and for the feedback! I agree that we’re getting there.

I’ll write up the new findings here in a minute.

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Good question about wind layers on the World-Map, I was also wondering the same. There is a post with that question but no answer: Question about Wind Layers in VFR Flight
Maybe the question should be made in the dev support forum ? https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/

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UPDATE

As I explained on my stream from last night, I kind of had an epiphany yesterday as to why the live weather UI is designed the way it is. I waited all day to finally go home to test it and after all that, it actually makes a bit more sense. Note: the VOD will only be good for 60 days from today. I may make it into a YouTube at some point, but I’ll probably keep talking about it on my streams (I think I explained it fully three different times throughout last night).

First, keep in mind that the general premise is the weather you get is the weather that existed at the scheduled mission time, whenever that was in the past 24 hours. That could also be the current time, but only if the mission time coincides with the actual UTC time. I believe they designed it this way to keep us from flying at night - forcing everything to within a fairly narrow daytime time band.

Going back to the weather time slider in the mission selector screen and the “red-dot,” it didn’t make sense until I realized that there’s some map layers that are a little hidden and certainly not well-publicized (more on that later).

It turns out that if you want an overview of what the winds are going to be for your flight, you need to set something else up first:

Go into the mission map, click the layers icon in the lower right corner. Select “advanced,” which then brings up the layers - select weather layer: “wind,” and wind effect: “ground” “low” or “high.” It’ll take several seconds but the map should generate a “heat map” with color designating the general intensity of the wind and then wind trace lines kind of like you’d see on windy.com

Now, find the mission you want, then move the time slider to that mission time (you’ll have to convert it to UTC, which is an annoying UI oversight), which will then display the red dot when you’re at the time. Let go of the slider and it’ll take about 10 seconds or so, then the winds will update to whatever time for which the time slider is set. Now you know the general winds for your flight. Check “ground” for surface winds, “low” for winds that those of us on last nights stream think are at about 6000’-ish? And “high” for winds at about 30,000’-ish. More testing or confirmation needed (why it doesn’t say the altitude right there in the UI is beyond me - bad decision).

But I matched this to historic and live winds at aviationweather.gov and it matched almost perfectly.

So now you have no excuse to fly into heavy winds. Unless, and this is a big unless, there are still bugs. I still think some people in Europe especially are getting a raw deal - it’s injecting nonsense, but now you have a way to verify it inside the sim - to know what the sim thinks it’s supposed to be giving you. If you find it to be a big discrepancy, it’s time to do a bug report with your location, altitude, in-sim UTC time, and real UTC time and date.

Is this enough information to do proper preflight planning? No. But it is a good general overview as to what you’re about to get into. I still highly recommend looking at aviationweather.gov or SimBrief/Navigraph because there is still a lot more to it - forecast-wise (it’s not static for 3-5 hours, you know), and because surface, 6000 and 30,000’ leaves a lot of room in middle that is going to be different. You can’t plan a flight at 12,000’ using winds at 6,000’ - I proved that on a mission last night in which the difference in altitude generated a 20 knot difference in headwind component (which was verified as correct using aviationweather.gov.- so the sim is injecting fairly correct weather, at least where I’m flying in the US).

Is it still clunky UI? Yes. Having to change the time slider to generate the red dot and waiting for the winds to update for each individual mission you’re looking at takes time and is annoying.

But it does now make a little more sense.

Now, why someone from Asobo hasn’t been screaming this from the rooftops, instead letting us wallow, get frustrated, complain, quit, and frankly, abuse people is beyond me. This could have been well-clarified a long time ago.

My other observations about the clunky mission briefing UI, the lack of information there, and more still stand.

Anyway, hopefully this helps.

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Let me clarify, too, that it’s possible that these findings have previously been stated by folks elsewhere, official or otherwise, but I haven’t found it, especially not in aggregate and tested/verified. Yet there is so much noise that continues to intensify - much of which could have been squelched by better communication.

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You really hit the nail on the head with how the miscommunication from the game’s UI causes further confusion and frustration among the playerbase.

We saw the same thing with the control UI implementation. Behind the scenes it’s actually great, I can have seperate controls load up depending on the aircraft I am in and also aircraft-unique controls are saved separately from that main general profile. The problem is that it’s simply not explained through the UI, and many people initially got the wrong idea thinking that the ‘third row’ would save and load a profile unique to that aircraft, but really it’s just for the few unique bindings that aircraft supports (many aircraft will not require any).

So same with career mode weather. The live dots are introduced to you as the only indication that Live Weather will be loaded, and with the first few hours of play time not loading live weather (First Flight, Flight Seeing, no IFR cert), you really start to get the impression that missions will use preset weather, unless they have that red dot.

Possible Solution: I think the game just needs to show some big indicator next to the mission times and weather info when you hover over the mission or select it. Maybe text with a red background above the mission info that says HISTORIC LIVE WEATHER

Something like this would make it super clear:

I’m actually super happy the game uses historic live weather for most career mode missions, it makes some real weather planning somewhat possible like you described, it’s just a shame it’s not explained and a lot of people wont understand they are flying in some real conditions, which is awesome!

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I love that idea! It would also help if those mission times were ALSO listed in UTC (keep local time, too). That would prevent people from having to drag the slider around to figure out when the heck that is in time zones with which they’re not familiar.

It’s weird that the dots randomly disappear, too, when you’re moving the slider within their time range - would be nice to know if that’s a bug or some other intentional feature.

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I believe the red dot is as you described, it’s when the mission start time is close to the time you’ve selected on the slider. Some missions start in the afternoon and some start in the morning.

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It totally is - I find the red dot appears whenever the time slider is from mission start time to about +2 hours later. Again, that is providing the basis for indicating that the weather displayed by the map is aligned with where the time slider is as well. So all three - time slider, red-dot, and weather layers active will get you an overview. It’s not my favorite way to do this, but it at least makes a little sense as to why it’s designed this way.

But the fact that it also moves the start time to within that 2-hour window with the red dot showing is a little puzzling. I guess it allows for a little flexibility, say to wait out a passing storm or front? Not sure on that - hopefully the devs can eventually speak to it.

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Holy moly, I would have NEVER found this wind map if it weren’t for you brave explorers. First of all, the Advanced options don’t even look like a button with more stuff at a casual glance. It looks like a descriptive label or one of the map types associated with the graphics below. So I wouldn’t even think to click that and find more stuff in there. Bad UI design yowzers.

Then, the options didn’t even work for me. The wind layer options were disabled saying they’re only available when doing live missions. I couldn’t enable them no matter what I tried.

So I went into a mission briefing screen and back out to the map, hoping it would reset stuff, and it did, but then the wind data just wouldn’t load. I sat their like a schmuck for minutes poking at stuff and and waiting, and nothing happened.

I had to close Flight Simulator and reload it, and then immediately went back to these menus, and lo and behold after almost a half minute again, the wind layers finally loaded, without any indication it was working on something in the background.

Nobody is going to find this, or even comprehend what it’s intended to mean. The UI has completely ruined it due to extremely bad design and implementation, coming from a Direct3D UI developer here.

They just have no time or people, and the software isn’t finished. It reminds me of those baking challenge shows, where they have an hour to make this fancy decorated cake, and they’re just scramling up until the last second hoping it doesn’t fall over. They never had a chance to actually finish it, let alone document it.

So now I know where it’s windy, and I can just avoid those places if I want.

Next we have to talk about how mechanical turbulence and gust frequency is extremely overdone.

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Hey, great point, Skip! I also had this happen to me during the stream. I found I had to back out to the main menu (out of career mode) and when I went back in it was fixed. So one more bug to squash :crazy_face:

I think I had actually tried looking at/for weather layers in career mode a couple weeks ago, but it never showed. I wonder if it was bugged out like this, or it was totally disabled. Maybe they fixed this in patch 3? Not sure about any of that under the hood stuff. Sheesh.

Yep, they’ve done folks, including themselves, a huge disservice.

Yes, it needs to be fixed for a couple reasons, some are a bit counterintuitive. I actually addressed this near the end of the stream as well.

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I’m worried about how they’re going to address this. Experience has shown that they often don’t put a lot of additional work into making the weather more plausible, but respond to the avalanche of complaints by simply disabling problematic features and shelving them indefinitely.

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Wind Layers seem to have disappeared in Career Mode right now. Not sure what’s going on…
Ah yes, I see you mention this above.

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