Hello, there is a problem with rudder on original CJ4 and Workingtitle CJ4 accordingly, which I believe is in airframe somewhere. It has a huge problem, when there is an even small crosswind ~15knots, there is not enough rudder authority to compensate for the wind even with aileron covering. After around 90 knots no matter how you compensate the plane won’t stay on the runway and will veer off the runway into the wind. I know my crosswind guys, real world experience 13-14 years. All other models are fine, similar jets are fine, the problem just with this one. It appears that as soon as nosewheel gets lifted from the ground, the rudder has that problem. All other models are fine, I’ve checked. I also tried to modify aerodynamics section and flight tuning section and its all not doing any good. Just try with like 15 direct crosswind and you will see. I’m surprised that only few people brought that to attention.
I don’t have WT CJ4 so cannot test that but stock is a bit light in the butt. Keep in mind that the CJ4 only has a max xwind component of 19 knots.
I find it is almost impossible to get the CJ off the ground in MSFS with 15+ xwind without full aileron deflection and holding the gear on the asphalt until you perceive a slight wing lift on the downwind side. At that moment you should be at or very near Vr. Don’t delay and get that crab angle as soon as she lifts. Level the wings and continue departure.
If the downwind wing starts to lift before Vr, slightly reduce aileron input to keep all three tires in contact to Vr. Do NOT let that nose lift until ready to rotate.
Give it a shot and see if that helps.
Look at that. not even half deflection on the rudder with strong crosswind. Try the same in these models. There is a flaw with either dynamics of the whole sim (if proportions of the plane are as per real one and dynamics depend on the actual physic model) or a flaw with the specific proportions of this model. It’s just a shame and pity because the ProLine 21 and MCDU is modelled so good in this mod and fun to fly, but the whole handling thing makes it impossible. Also I believe it has too much ground effect and nose should follow down pretty quick after mains touchdown, but it does not, even with spoilers
Exactly as I described above. Note the three wheels ON THE GROUND right to rotation. Also the full aileron deflection. Right before rotation you can see the downwind wing JUST start to rise. At that moment the pilot rotates. They are a touch slow at setting the crab, by my standards, but this video looks like it is right out of the Citation textbook.
The sim IS a bit less forgiving but not much.
Its not true CJ4 has maximum demonstrated 26 knots of crosswind which in aviation does not mean LIMIT. It means it was demonstrated and aircraft always have some more room to go above with limits in POH. For example C172 has max 15 knots crosswind, does it mean it will not have enough rudder authority after 15 knots? No. I’ve landed 25-ish crosswind IRL with even gusts. Like I said, I’ve flown long enough time to know all the correct techniques for different types. And 15 knots should not even be a thing for this type. Even without aileron cover. And I don’t want to follow “lifehacks” on how to fly it improperly just to be able to stay on the runway. If I’m in the sim I will fly it like the real world thing, which in this case is impossible.
Check the video of much similar jet which is CJ1 with 14 knot direct crosswind. Easy breezy just the way it should be
*Hint, look at the pedals of copilot. the most it came is about to half way right deflection on touch down with a half of aileron cover. These planes you can’t aileron cover too much, because the wing is low and there is a good chance of wing strike.
The type of FMS (i.e., modded or not) aboard the CJ4 doesn’t factor into this conversation. It’s the same underlying airframe and coded behavior in terms of performance and handling.
I will record a video and throw a link here. Using text book techniques with 14 wind direct crosswind. Using Brunner Yoke and Pedals which is professional hardware certified for full size sims (forgot which category) So controls are not issue as well.
I am not giving a “life hack”.
I am offering you the benefit of about 1800 hours of Citation PIC logbook time. Granted most in the Citation II, but not a much different bird. Techniques are pretty standard across the board.
Landing is not the same as taking off, but trust me when I say, do not attempt to hold the nosewheel off in any Citation, taking off or landing, with any “significant” xwind.
Who said something about that is tied? I just wrote that mod is good in terms of CDU and ProLine and I enjoy flying it, except that crosswind situation. I also mentioned that default CJ4 has the same exact flaw with crosswind (although workingtitle modified many sections in flight_model.cfg). All there in my text.
i have it on FlightRecorder so i can check it up and probably upload it lateron
I do not hold the nose on takeoff nor landing. I said that around 80 knots rudder does not have enough authority and it happens instantly in one second. You are rolling for your Vr at 102 and at 80 your full rudder and full aileron (which don’t even have to be there IRL in first place) don’t do anything at all. And another thing that nose tends to fly more than in the similar real type. You literally have to push the yoke down ALOT to bring the nose down right after mains touch down. Here, I will be streaming today and before I test that on the stream, I will throw a time code here
- weight
- balance
- trim
All the aircraft in the sim are a bit touchy on the ground, no argument. I did say the sim is less forgiving. No substitute for good technique, even if it is slightly more extreme in sim than IRL.
Obviously you have all the real world experience needed to get this sorted. Enjoy.
You can now increase rudder authority in the Customisation tab, up to an extra 3°.
I fly the WT CJ4 a lot - it’s the most capable IFR aircraft in the SIM and most reliable for Vatsim (for me) and yes it is very hard to maintain Centreline in crosswinds. Which is not helped by the fact that the MSFS live weather model always, without fail, has higher wind speeds compared to IRL Metar (I now use Rex Weather force simply so I don’t get nightmare crosswinds)
But it’s not just the CJ - you get it with all the aircraft. I started flying the 747 simply because it could cope with the crosswinds! The issue is the underlying weather and physics models and particularly the underestimated friction and inertial forces when on the ground.
But I appreciate the guidance offered above. I’ll be putting it to the test
Always balanced, always trimmed correctly, weight within normal limits around 13500, 14000 TOW, max 3 people and bit of cargo. AlpineB4652, thanks for that customization tip I will try today.
Not trimmed correctly for the weight and balance or you would not have to…
Never flown an airplane where the nose wants to fly. Both take off and landing trim should reduce that tendency.
I’m obviously out of my league here so will end my participation here.
I’m experiencing these issues as well, only in CJ4. Keep centered in crosswinds on takeoffs is very hard, but the main problem is the nose floating after touchdown, very annoying to push the yoke, but it’s the only way to lower the nose.
Yo tengo el mismo problema al aterrizar y no encuentro solucion . El avion se va de repente fuera de la pista
The CJ4 lands flat and fast with a low AOA. It does take what seems like a long time for the nose to drop IRL. Speedbakes essential. Better than stomping on the wheel brakes and (if you use toe brakes) veering all over the runway…
Stop it man, I fly for 13 years, know how to trim so yeah, thanks for joining in. I never flown that type of plane too, but MSFS2020 CJ4 gives me that option