World & City Updates in Marketplace

I’ve actually discussed this at length in this wishlist item (Updating the sim is too complicated - Updating the sim is too complicated (too many steps) - #70 by ElasticSack182) which has now 61 votes.

The problem in itself isn’t the modular nature of these updates - that’s not an issue and all in all its actually a good idea, for example I rarely fly in Australia and hence don’t have that region installed (apologies in advance to all the Aussies out there, I’m more of a green loving, mountain hopping dude). It’s the sheer confusion in the installation process, the poor communication of where the World Updates actually are, the long drawn out process for getting them and the logic of the developers in putting an “update” into a “Marketplace” as a “free” purchase when its the Content Manager that is known for handling updates. A shocking amount of people, as is evidenced from the wishlist item find this process inherently silly and non-logical.

It shouldn’t be a case of “if you know, then you know” as that’s a poor excuse for new users, or inexperienced users. The process for installing World Updates should be obvious and simple and currently it is not.

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Global and Local.

Think of the marketplace as a Global drive where we can all collectively access and download new sim information (CU, WU) as well as new aircraft and other third party addons. Again these WU and CU are optional and that’s why they are offered for free in the MP. Many people download all of them, and many only download the areas they know they’ll fly to save Hard drive space.

Now the Content Manager does exactly that, manages your content on your Local drive. The content manager is only responsible for updates on content you already own or have “purchased” from the MP. These two work together and will likely be the same in 2024. There will be the new Marketplace and “My Library” now.

I agree with you both. Yes it can be complicated for many new comers. MSFS has a very steep learning curve, more than most other sims/games. From setting up peripheral sensitivities and bindings, data and bandwidth, learning the UI and understanding flight planning. MSFS has many aspects to learn the ins and outs before you can even jump into an aircraft and take off.
I think the team has done a pretty good job with streamlining the UI and UX, I can’t wait to see how 2024 operates. If you think the MarketPlace/Content Manager process is complicated, don’t try and update firmware on cameras (especially Sony) you’ll go cross eyed! :face_with_spiral_eyes:

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I disagree. What does a “Marketplace” conjure up in your head ?

For me it’s a place where you go to “buy things” in a market. Updates are not things you “buy” (even for “free”) so their presence in the “Marketplace” is nonsensical - it’s nothing more than a poor workaround for something that should be better thought out, such as having a region downloader already baked into the sim.

Please understand (because you probably haven’t seen my other posts on this topic) that my complaint is one of failing to implement clear, simple to use software design and logical processes that make sense to most users. No one who sees the MSFS loading screen randomly change one day to “UK and Ireland update” and all the beautiful images of the improved scenery, then upon arriving in the sim and being prompted to do a Content Manager update RELATED to that region should then have to make the illogical leap that - “no, actually, it’s still not installed” and you’ll actually now have to go to the Marketplace to buy for “free” something that is called an “update”. It’s a very basic question of decent, logical software design, something that Microsoft really fail to do well.

I’m glad you agree with us, but it seems to be for reasons other than I have mentioned.

You say that MSFS has a steep learning curve - yes, if you’re talking about the complexity of aircraft, flying them, starting them, mastering their dynamics, landings, flight procedures, bad weather etc. but the UI to get a flight up and running is actually surprisingly good and simple and incredibly easy to access (its a lot better than previous versions of FS). It has a relatively simple to use Content Manager which is essentially the Flight Simulator “updater” and if you hear that an UPDATE has come out, where do you logically go for getting it ? The Content Manager…

The steep learning curve however, should have nothing to do with updates or downloading content, both for the software creators and the users, they’re very simple concepts to understand and easy things to do. Updates if anything are annoying, but rarely difficult (unless they break things) and they certainly don’t need to be difficult in the context of a flight simulator.

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I suppose the problem is that those of us who have been using this since release know what to do when a new update is released. Install mandatory patch, download new WU/CU from the Marketplace, go to the “Content Manager”, and download any updates to existing installed packages.

If you don’t know this I can see why it would be confusing. I wouldn’t go so far as to say its a steep learning curve, as I’ve just outlined what to do above in one sentence, but I would agree it might not make much sense to the uninitiated.

The issue would be one of segregation. Treating first party updates for the sim differently than other addons that are on the Marketplace. You can’t install them by default, as some users may not want them, or even have the space to install them. It would almost have to be a clone of the Marketplace, under some other distinct name, where you can pick, and choose items from the list to install. To that I would add an “Update” button to those you already have installed to save you a trip to the “Content Manager”.

I think you’ve reached your level of comprehension on this subject. These are pretty basic computing skills you’re talking about here. You’re getting hung up on the word ‘marketplace.’ It’s a gathering of goods offered to people. Just like this is a ‘forum’ a gathering of folks to share and help with ideas.

What I was talking about was right after I said that. No need to misquote me.

What I’m saying by steep learning curve is that it takes more to setup this sim/game than most. It has a more advanced setup/and learning phase to initially get started. Not a bad thing.
It takes a little bit more technical skill dealing with files and setup before you can just jump in and go.

Where they’ve told us to go since Aug 2020. The marketplace. Every dev update says “these options” are now available free to download from the marketplace.

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Probably on par with X-Plane I would guess, to get the most out of it, with some toing, and froing either side of the line for certain things. Better fault logging in XP, for example. MSFS fault finding can be a royal pain.

The only thing “shocking” about 61 out of 15,000,000 is how small it is. I can’t understand how half a dozen clicks makes something overtly complicated.

I was once new to this too and did did not find it hard or obtuse. They post right in the updates where to find it for all to read and then when you look at the market to find new products (which WU and CU are) they’re right there. I can’t imagine it being easier, in fact, short of having it automatically installed - and I’m not sure that’s a good idea.

I do not really want things in the community manager that I do not own. Nor do I want to “own” things I didn’t click on and say “give my account this product.” While I do own and have installed all of the updates, imagine if there were a lot more. Would you want everything on flightsim.to suddenly appearing in your content manager if we go to extremes?

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It’s not a question of it being about basic computer skills. I’m an IT administrator in networks and security for the past 15 years, I’ve plenty of “computer skills”. I’m also not Einstein but I’m not stupid either, where this “Marketplace” concept is too difficult for me to understand. I’m just sort of fed up of poorly thought out software that breaks all the conventions that we learn - it makes the process an utterly confusing one for newcomers and makes experienced people scratch their heads and wonder what the developers were thinking. It shouldn’t be a case of “if you know, then you know” - that’s no good for something that we invest so heavily in, this is a Microsoft product after all for which we pay a significant amount of money.

As I mentioned in other posts I spent hours troubleshooting the lack of UK and Ireland photogrammetry after having done what seemed to me like all the updates possible within the sim (not including the marketplace), including a content manager update called “UK and Ireland”, utterly making me believe that nothing else was left to do. I spent HOURS clearing caches, rebooting MSFS, removing the Community folder all for it to be something really stupid, and because I wasn’t in the “if you know, then you know” crowd. Not knowing an unknowable thing, cost me many hours of frustration and a lot of utterly avoidable work if it was clear within the Sim what was necessary to do.

Yeah, I don’t disagree with you, MSFS is a complex simulator, BUT that doesn’t mean that it should be by default an obtuse, complicated to use piece of software. The complexity of the Sim has nothing to do with its UI and UX - there is nothing stopping them from being very clear and simple. As it stands it’s surprisingly simple in most regards to use the UI (to get a flight running is easy, changing weather is easy, flight plans and routing aren’t even all that bad and the UI is much more functional compared to FSX days). However what we’re talking about here is the incredibly simple process of updating the sim with region improvements - not a complicated concept to understand or even code for. The complexity of the sim shouldn’t become a reason to turn typically simple procedures such as updates, into convoluted, complicated and nonsensical procedures. I wish we were talking about something actually complex, but we’re not, so the “FS is complex anyway” argument doesn’t work for me - it’s just updates we’re talking about. It would be simple to argue that the planet and its regions are some of the most important aspects of MSFS, along with the aircraft and weather system. If you’d agree with me, and I’d expect that you would then ask yourself the question as to why the improvements for these regions are so hidden. Why isn’t there a Region section in the sim that allows you to download the ones that interest you and keep the others basic to save space. That to me would be infinitely more logical for an aspect of the sim that is so fundamentally important, instead of hiding the updates in an utterly illogical part of the Sim.

Who told you this? I never heard about it, I started on FS2020 in 2022 so was I too late for this message? Again what we’re talking about is “lucky if you know, then you know” syndrome which is not really acceptable, where if you tend to watch the livestreams or go through the pain that is reading release notes online, you MIGHT notice this written somewhere. For the UK and Ireland update for which I was the most excited, the Release Notes in sim (that you can see by pressing the V key) just had the message “Error”, so no hope of those instructions there. The previous 4 or 5 World and other updates had NO release notes whatsoever, just a message similar to “Thanks for playing Flight Simulator, can’t wait to see you in the skies”. That button simply doesn’t do anything anymore, it’s pointless and it’s kind of embarrassing that it’s still included when it has just been neglected. It’s quite sad at what point they’ve kind of stopped caring about their own software and the features that they implement.

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It’s quite literally at the top of this thread in post #1.

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The whole process could be simpler, sure. But however they’d change it, there would be people who don’t like it, people who like it, and people who don’t care.

I would appreciate an option to automatically download and install both sim updates and world/city updates. I don’t need to confirm the mandatory update during startup and I don’t need to go to the marketplace to “buy” it. Let me just check an option in the settings to have the sim automatically download and install those files.

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By the same logic, I suppose the thread on “Implement better mountain definition” which has 800 or so votes doesn’t count for a ■■■■ thing either, when you compare it against 15 million users. Suppose the Wishlists are just pointless then. The 61 votes are consistently climbing, 4 new ones in 2 days and the item is above the average for the majority of proposals there, from what I can see, so I’m clearly not the only person who sees this as an issue.

Obviously my issue is not about the fact that I have to click a half dozen times to install something. Please read my posts - it’s about NOT KNOWING that I have to click a half dozen times to get an update installed. It’s about going looking for updates in strange nonsensical places, that add unnecessary steps to what should be a very simple and logical process.

I literally don’t follow your logic. You do realise that the region that you “don’t want to own” is already INSTALLED on your PC because if you flew over it tomorrow without any updates having been done, there would still be buildings, rivers, mountains, cities, airports there - they just wouldn’t be the most up to date models of those respective airports, buildings, mountains etc.

World Updates are UPDATES (it’s in the name for christ sake) for that particular region and updates are always done in the CONTENT MANAGER and considering you already have that region installed at a basic level (whether you like it or not, that’s the case) all you’re doing is UPDATING those regions when Asobo makes improvements to them. They’re not in any LOGICAL sense a “purchase” because you purchased them ALL when you bought MSFS. The proof for this is that these “purchases” are 100% free every time, meaning that it’s not actually even a purchase, just a download - hence begging the question - why isn’t it just in the Content Manager as an update that I can forgo, or accept ? Or even better, in a “World Regions” section of the FS home screen where users can choose what regions they want installed / updated automatically.

Why do people find this so hard to understand… You already OWN ALL the regions, by your own admission you’ve actually installed all of them too.

I address this last point to everybody here, especially the people who disagree with me. Please understand that software design should have decent standards and shouldn’t be based on 'if you know, then you know" because you let software teams get away with prioritising frustration for us over making genuinely great products that will fundamentally last. Also a small subset of users may be experiencing a great sim because they “know” what to do, but many others are seeing something mediocre because they’ve missed an important but very illogical step. Microsoft has trillions in revenue so there’s no excuse for not making this better.

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And for the user who doesn’t come to this forum (for example; has absolutely no reason to, doesn’t know it even exists, is 72 years old and doesn’t know what forums even are), what do they do when they see that the Cliffs of Moher are now available in really high detail but they stil can’t see them in the sim? How do they “guess” this ?

They can’t - it’s badly done, pure and simple and the “when you know, you know” defence is a very poor excuse to just implementing these updates better in the sim.

Have people not noticed that you CAN download World Updates entirely from the Content Manager, without going into the marketplace ?
Go into Content Manager and set it to show “owned”. It will display all the free updates you are entitled to, not just the ones you’ve downloaded.

Hello @MucusTech,
This is misleading and has caused issues as items would be missing.

The proper procedure is to download from the Marketplace place first, then check the Content Manager.

I think you still have to “buy” them first for them to be considered owned by you. Try looking on the marketplace for something free that doesn’t show you already own it, then look for it in “Content Manager”.

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For me, “Marketplace” is where you get new content and "Content Manager is where you go to uninstall/install/update content you already own.

I was a little confused the first time I went to add a World Update, but after that I know what to do.

I think the most confusing thing for new users is that they hear this a new update and when they start the sim there is usually a mandatory update before you get into the sim. I think a lot of people think THAT is the new update and wonder why the don’t see the new content.

They should probably make a link to the new World Updates on the main screen of the sim that links you directly to the install page in the Marketplace.

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I can see all the World Updates as “owned” in Content Manager, even though I have only ever downloaded four of them.
In response to the instruction from the official source that I shouldn’t be doing this - why on earth do we have the option to install them from there ,then?!

To own something, you first need to acquire from MP. That’s what everybody is telling you. After you own it, yeah, you don’t need to go back to the MP. Until a new World Update/City Update is released.

That said, I think the process will be different in MSFS 2024 (My guess, based on what was said so far, but they didn’t say it officially). If everything is more cloud based, we won’t need to update the scenery locally (again, that’s my own guess).

Not a fan of the Marketplace as it is or as part of the updates in general I agree with the OP.

It’s quite frankly a bit of dirty pool with the thing being a bit of wild west in quality provided and the buying credits, it’s necessary part of the game until you buy some credits and end up with something you don’t want. Oh that’s third party!

Then if you do buy something and enjoy it for a bit but then buy something else that replaces it you are forever burdened with that first purchase. You can never again just install all because you bought Bijan Seasons but now prefer to use AccuSeason.

Couldn’t agree more with this to be honest. And not only the world updates. I just discovered i had undownloaded (or unbuyed) airplanes in the marketplace which were updates or things i just missed apperently.

Also it still seems that during updates the sim hangs or freezes a lot and in the market place its not clear how or what it is doing. It freezes for a minute or 2 halfway the download en suddenly voila its suddenly ready with the blue dot message on top