A VR Success Story- IN PICTURES!

Thanks KevyKev for the rundown. My Initial few dives into VR (similar system to yours) were pretty disconcerting. I had to dial everything way back, and even then the experience remained a juttery, blurry mess.

But somewhere between yourself, CptLucky8 and VR Flight sim guys settings and recommendations, and a lot of tweaking, I’m now really happy with the state of VR in flightsim on my machine.

The last few things I’ve tried might have done it…

*Remove Nvidia Experience

*Downgrade to earlier nVidia drivers- in my case, 457.30 (I think CptLucky8 tested a bunch and 457.30 performed best)

*Run FS in a window, and make sure everything else is minimised during flying.

BTW, I’m considering picking up the Carenado Mooney- but others have mentioned issues with the 3d mouse cursor in VR with that plane- is this a similar story to the PA44?

Cheers

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Same here. And I got even more frustrated when everyone was recommending to install OXR, because it seemed like whenever I did, it just made things worse! But I’ve stumbled across what might be a winning formula (that is slightly different from my OP above), in that now I do have it installed, with the latest preview runtime slider set to “On”, and a custom render scale of 50%. Now, how that helped make things better, both in terms of smoothness (which I assume means higher FPS, but I haven’t figured out a way to get an FPS counter on inside of VR, and the truth is I don’t care as long as it looks good), and clarity, as it somehow enabled me to crank my settings inside the sim, is a complete mystery to me.

I now have render scaling set at 100% (which is close to the native resolution of my G2s), and many other things that I shared above I’ve “upgraded” as well, and I’m quite pleased. And I’m still tweaking.

It’s still blurrier than I would like (almost like I need weak glasses, and forgot them to make a RW comparison), but I’m starting to wonder if I actually NEED some RW prescription lenses, either contacts or in my device itself. I’ve read that is at least hypothetically possible, but haven’t looked into it in any detail, so I’m nowhere near certain about that.

I also removed Geforce Experience, and downgraded to 452.06 on my drivers, but that was almost an arbitrary choice, as it was the last one that specifically addressed MSFS, and it seemed to improve things, though I can’t dismiss the placebo effect either. Frankly, if I hadn’t kept those driver files in a prominent location on my desktop, I’m not even sure that I’d know how to check what version I’m on (device manager?), though it hurts my very long and extensive history as an IT weenie to say that out loud.

I also don’t know how I’ll know if/when Nvidia releases new drivers, especially if they’re targeted at MSFS improvements without randomly checking their website on a regular basis, or getting lucky here (or elsewhere) and hoping that someone mentions it and I notice the post.

I run virtually everything minimized (except FS itself, which I keep full screen on my main display so I don’t lose mouse control), and on a second monitor which is attached to my onboard graphics, not my GPU. I’ve tried putting the monitor displayed FS window on the second display under the theory that it will unload my GPU (because my GPU doesn’t drive that display), but it made no discernable difference, which seems strange to me.

Then again, this all seems more like voodoo than any sort of best technical practices.

As for the Mooney, I have it and love it, but I haven’t tried it in VR yet. I’ve been flying the PA44 almost exclusively, with a few flights with the Baron thrown in for giggles. But I’d vote for grab it now while it’s on sale, I think that sale ends on Tuesday. (I think the sale price is more reasonable and appropriate than the regular one, but that’s a whole different conversation.)

One thing that was driving me nuts about the PA44 was getting the fuel selectors turned on inside of VR, as it but I found a way for it to default to that so that’s fixed, too!

I also turn off EVERYTHING (which basically only means Discord, but I let it start on the theory that if I don’t, I might forget I even have it and never turn it on), reboot every time I’m gonna sim, and then just turn on WMR and the sim itself. I even created a shortcut to the game directly so I don’t have to start Steam, though it does seem like it does so at least temporarily, I suppose to check if I’m a legit licensed user.

I think I’m at the point that I’m just tweaking around the edges trying to maximize settings without killing frames (or visual fidelity) until new drivers, software tweaks and enhancements, and other things from MS, Asobo, HP, Carenado, or any other software that even remotely touches my experience come out and make it even better.

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Nice one @KevyKevTPA I have noticed your render scaling is 90, you’ve probably changed it now but with the G2 OXR SS at 100% you can set MSFS TAA render scaling to 60% or 70% and still have beautifully clear visuals - you’ll also be able to bump up the graphical settings as well. Loving VR in this title.

Incidentally if you want to try reprojection, reverse your render scaling settings.

MSFS TAA 100%, OXR SS 60% - Reprojection ‘Always on’ but you get less artifacts when disabling runtime preview setting. This works quite well for me. If you don’t turn down OXR SS then the reprojection is next to useless.

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Actually, @sneaky74, I went the other way, and have OXR set at 50, and TAA at 100, which is just about native for my G2s. As an experiment, yesterday I tried TAA 150, and while it looked fantastic, my 2070 Super threw up trying to do it, and my frame rates got cut to about 12.

But I’m not married to any specific solution, so I’ll give your OXR 100, TAA 70 (ish) a shot and see if the visuals and performance are better one way or the other. I found I can run with OXR 50 TAA 110 out in the middle of nowhere (I was literally in the Arizona desert looking for that meteor crater, but the only instructions I had were “take off from Flagstaff and head west”, so that quest failed lol. I’m sure it’s out there somewhere, but I didn’t find it, and if it’s a POI on the flight planning map, I didn’t find it that way, either. But I didn’t try the OXR 50 TAA 110 option around actual civilization, so I don’t know if it will be able to do it successfully or not.

I haven’t played with the repro mode at all, except yesterday I turned it on without changing anything else, and I got a strange effect where the bottom of my view almost looked a tiny bit letterboxed. But I can’t say with certainty it was the repro setting that did that, so I’m planning to give it another shot as well.

But I’ll give the OXR 100 and TAA 70 option, and circle back with you, assuming I can find this thread again lol…

I’ll try tagging myself to see if it gives me an alert. @KevyKevTPA

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@sneaky74, here’s my (very quick) findings and opinion.

At the end of the day, OXR vs. render scaling settings don’t matter a bit. What matters is the final resolution that’s being pushed to your headset, and whether that’s native (or as close to native as the math allows), or over/super sampled. That both performance and clarity are completely dependent on the number of pixels being driven to your HMD, and how well your CPU/GPU combo can handle that without puking.

In my case, if I drive near native resolution (regardless of how I get there), I get ~30fps, and somewhat blurry (but totally acceptable) image quality. As I go above native, the quality improves at the price of fps. Which is how things have always been, VR, not VR, potato, potatoe, it simply doesn’t matter.

Since in my case the 50 OXR/100 TAA gets closest to native pixels, that’s what I’m going with. Hopefully some tweaks or optimizations may come from Nvidia and/or Asobo that lets me increase that without the fps penalty, but I guess we’ll see. If not, my choices will be to live with it as is, or upgrade my CPU, GPU, or both so that I can drive more pixels to the hmd and maintain/increase frames.

@CptLucky8, I think this analysis would interest you as well.

My next step is going to be enabling repro and seeing what happens then. Hopefully that “letterboxing” thingy won’t come back, or if it does but performance improves otherwise, I may just have to deal with it.

A lot of what I’m saying is pure Realtime stream of consciousness thinking while my brain is going full speed, so if I sound a little disjointed, I apologize.

On a (very?) loosely related note, and to another conversation that you and I had @CptLucky8, I’ve found that by turning off WMR, it does in fact fix the problem of fps nosediving when you exit VR mode. BUT, and here’s the weird part (at least to me), I can STAY in VR mode and turn WMR off, and my VR mode remains functional with no change in visuals or performance, despite WMR no longer running. But if I then leave VR and come back, it turns on WMR automatically when I do.

I’m not at all sure how all of this interrelates, only that it makes my brain burn and ears bleed when I’m hyper-analyzing it as I am right now!

So I’m going to go back to OXR 50, TAA 100, and have a nice relaxing flight (maybe I’ll go take another stab at finding that ■■■■ crater), and let my brain CHTs cool off a bit. I definitely need to open my metaphorical cowl flaps lol!

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You shouldn’t be able to closing WMR Portal Window when in VR otherwise it should shutdown VR and probably FS2020 along the way. It is peculiar!?

As for the resolution(s) question, I’m describing in “My VR Settings” the methodology I’ve been applying which basically is finding I can push about 2K x 2K render res without reproj. or 1.5K x 1.5K with reproj. (on a 9700K+2070S) with a combination of FS2020 base settings and Win10+NViida fine tuning.

Once you’ve determined this target figure, you can then exploit the TAA/SS ratio to your advantage because FS2020 is not just simply “stretching” the render res. into the headset res. at all, it is more complex than this.

For example you’ve chosen a TAA/SS ratio which gives you close to G2 native panel resolution, but there are many different ratios giving the same render resolution than the G2 native panel resolution, not just one, and this is where it gets interesting because you can maximize the visuals (outside, less blurry) while minimizing the performance hit at the same time.

I’m describing the resolutions here:
Comparing Reverb G2 and Valve Index resolution and what does it mean with SteamVR and OpenXR

And the main points here:
EFIS resolution depends on render resolution, not post-processing resolution.

Take the Index for example, in choosing TAA 100 and SS 78 I get clear sharp EFIS but blurry outside world. However in choosing TAA 60 and SS 220 I get detailed outside view and legible enough EFIS. In both cases, the simulator is rendering the same number of pixels (about the same) and in both cases I get about the same fps too. The difference lies in how the simulator is rendering all this:

  • FS2020 EFIS screen resolution depends on TAA scale only
  • FS2020 outside details depends on SS scale only
  • TAA 70 gives the best perf/pixel ratio globally, TAA 80 gives the best legibility/perf ratio on EFIS

I’ve nearly tested all combinations with both the Index and the G2 and this is why for the G2 I’ve ended up recommending these when not using reprojection:

FS2020 OpenXR Comments
TAA 70% SS 70% Well balanced gauges and external visuals with solid fps
TAA 80% SS 60% Best for Airliners where EFIS sharpness is more important than external view
TAA 60% SS 100% Best for analog gauges GA aircraft with super detailed outside view.

Please note: these are selected to match the unique G2 resolution and might not always apply to other headsets. TAA ## means FS2020 Render Scaling, SS ## means OpenXR Render Scale.

When using reprojection there is a bug in WMR OpenXR where any SS below 65 gets distorted, therefore the minimum I can use if OXR SS 65. It is fine because at SS 65 the reprojection algorithm has less pixels to process and therefore can deliver. From this minimum value I’ve therefore found for my test system I need to do the following if I want to use reproj.:

  • OpenXR Dev Tools:
    Render Scale 65% | Motion Reproj. AUTO
  • FS2020:
    Terrain LOD: 50% | Render Scaling 60% | (Clouds LOW if needed)

All details here:
[Update 02JAN2021 - Settings for Motion Reprojection]

These settings are giving me at least 30fps with reproj., displaying as 90fps in the headset, in most aircraft and most areas. When flying over Hawaii or near Dubai, I can raise TAA to 70 instead of 60 with the K350, but not with the A320, and with the CAP10 I can raise it higher but there is no need with analogue gauges aircraft where 60 is really fine.

PS: We’re a little bit “forced” to optimizing all this because the simulator is under-delivering, but we shouldn’t be doing this as much with a 2070S which is already quite capable a video card. Furthermore I get much better fps with the G2 higher panel res and FS2020 higher rendering res. using WMR, than with the Index lower panel res and FS2020 similar rendering res using SteamVR.

However, in XP11 I get fluid stutter free 45fps with the B737 over ORBX LOWI with both the G2 and Index, at a higher resolution than the one I’m using in FS2020. I’ve for example tested the Index at 150% SS and it was running really fine in XP11, and was looking so stunning at 150% with the added benefit of the Index over the G2 I was almost considering the G2 is an investment for FS2020 only…

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@CptLucky8, OK, I did some reading of your stuff, and it’s good. But I got to the point that instead of reading, I just decided to “do”.

So I followed your instructions to the letter that can be found here. I ended up going with 100 on OXR, and whatever came closest to the actual physical resolution of my G2s in the Render Scaling option in MSFS. I also made a few tweaks to your in-sim settings, probably with the most notable being that I went with 6x6 on the texture supersampling (and I really wanted to go 8x8, but I figured I’d experiment with 6x6). I did that because I find that the farther away you get from 8x8, the less the runways look like runways from a distance.

The results overall are positive. I saw basically no change in framerates (except at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris, that place is huge, looks absolutely amazing, but I think there’s not a computer in existence that can run it very well. I was getting single digit framerates just taxiing around, and I think I taxied like 5 miles to get to my assigned runway. Plus there were some scenery glitches on some of the overpasses that were so bad, I literally almost crashed my aircraft unless I hit them at like 2 knots.)

But that’s Asobo’s issue, unless someone wants to create a freeware or payware replacement for it. I might use the freeware if it was good, but I don’t see myself using the airport enough to justify paying for it.

Anyway, back to VR, like I said I was steady at about 31 fps with your recommendations (and by steady, it’s almost like I was LOCKED in on that rate, both as an upper and lower limit, except for the CDG airport), but both the inside of my cockpit, the outside world, and even the smoothness of the motion all seemed noticeably improved.

But now I have a question. Before I go through your repro settings and try all that, should I? Is it better than non-repro? Different? Or is it just a different route that ends up in the same place?

Thanks for your insight into all of this, I think you’ve done really good work here overall. But I do hope future updates and optimizations makes your research and recommendations both obsolete and unnecessary at some point, and sooner is better.

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Thank you for your kind words! I’m glad this is helping others!

I share your hope one day, and the sooner the better, we wouldn’t have to spend as much time on this and have much more time flying instead. I’m not pleased doing so and spending time, but in the end when it is working for me and for others, it was worth it nonetheless. If these posts serve as future references about this technology, its terminology, the driver configuration options and what they do really, it will always be a sound reference no matter what (as a matter of fact I now tune all my other games with similar NVidia CPL with great results across the board).

As for reprojection, I honestly have a split point of view with it, and this also depends on the headset.

With the Valve Index and SteamVR 1.16.1 beta I get much better results than before, but not to the level of WMR reprojection. However this forces me trading too much resolution and details overall and I have a slight preference for non-reproj albeit with juddering.

With the G2 and WMR OpenXR v105, I get good results in both cases albeit with slightly lower resolution with reprojection, but in this case compared to the Index, the G2 panel resolution is still high enough to compensate some of the loss to me.

Please note I first posted my G2 recommendation without reprojection and only after I’ve ventured to trying out reprojection and posted additional recommendations for it. From then on, I was kind of hooked to using the G2 with reprojection because it was effectively working very nicely. I’ve since then reverted to flying a little more without reprojection with higher resolution and this is really good too. In the end I believe I might end up using no reprojection with any aircraft needing EFIS legibility, and reprojection with most analogue gauges aircraft or aerobatics/bush flying, but I’m really split between the two 50/50 at this time.

Can I have an honest opinion from the Op please… You posted this 18 days ago… Be honest now have you gone back to Flatscreen? Because I have.

You start out thinking everything is ok, but once you actually start to fly, (done any 1 hour flights yet) you realize that its really not ok.

30-35 FPS is not fun. And well, its cool to start off with but when your brain catches up to reality… Its not so fun anymore.

Edit: I know CptLucky has done a huge amount of work on helping everyone out… But I must ask have you actually spent any time playing… Again over 1 hour flights… Because same thing happened to me, trying so hard to get the game working in VR, you strive for that smooth experience… But when you actually sit down and try to PLAY… Not TEST… Even the Smooth experience shows its ugly face.

I mean if your flying 10 min hops, than its fine… But 1 hour or more, and well its just not fun anymore.

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@Malkuth1974, no I have not. Nor do I ever see myself doing so. Now, I do use flatscreen mode for the menus and such (at least pre-flight, after flight I tend to stay in VR), but once I’m in the cockpit, I switch to VR and I’m there to stay. And through my own efforts and those of others, my experience has only improved since my OP.

I’ve done many one hour flights. In fact, except for test flights, or short ones to “check the box” on trying to finish the Steam “achievements”, virtually all of mine are. Some have been in excess of 4 hours, but that’s the exception and almost always done with the CJ4. I don’t fly the default airliners, so it’s gonna be awhile until I start flying over oceans.

30-35 fps for my eyes and brain are fantastic. And with some of the OXR/TAA combinations I’ve tried, the visuals get clearer while the fps stays the same. I think if I could get to 40 or more, I’d find it impossible to tell any further improvements. But that’s easy to say, I suppose, when I haven’t experienced it.

Asked and answered, but just for giggles, yes. Lots. I probably do 3-4 90-120 minute flights every day, frequently more. (I’m disabled and rarely even get out of bed, so I have a lot of time to fly.) It’s not only not a problem, it’s a complete blast, that I’m completely addicted to, and even my wife, who is used to me being on the computer all the time (I’ve got a whole setup for my hospital bed, which is in the living room), might be getting jealous of my “matrix helmet” as she calls it. Because once I’m under the hood, it’s almost like I AM off in some other world somewhere.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, but if one hour plus flights aren’t fun for you, I don’t know what to tell you. Personally, I love every second of it, and would do more if sleeping wasn’t mandatory.

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Noticed your comment about the 30-35 fps not being good. I’m flying with High settings in VR with my frames locked at 18 via the Oculus Tray tool. I’m using the CV1 and flying for up to three hours at a time with excelent results. Loving VR in MSFS, even more so than in Xplane 11.

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This is wonderful to hear. I’ve been reading horror stories of how awful the G2 is and I really want to order one but that has been holding me back. I’m a glasses wearer and I need room for them in the headset. Also, is the ‘sweet spot’ really that small in the headset? I just want clearer visuals than the Rift S, I’ve got a fairly decent computer with i9 10850K, 32 gb of ram but I only have a Nvidia 1080. That should run the G2 fairly well I would think.

Also, where did you all purchase your G2 at? I found HP’s site but I’m leary because its a www8 address and not just www…kinda weirded me out.

I bought this game the day VR came out (12/22); VR is the only way I play; 123.4 hours of play time as of this post.

I’m in the U.S. Have been waiting and waiting for G2 to get out of preorder and be ready to ship. On 1/12 I accidentally stumbled across the HP Store site for the G2 (I was turned off by comments forum members made about dealing with the Connection outlet for HP, people waiting interminably on HOLD, etc.).

The HP Store said the G2 would ship by 1/21 when I ordered. It shipped 1/14 and arrived by FedEX Next Day on 1/15. I had a buyer remorse moment thinking, “Why is the G2 suddenly so available?! Did something just get announced at CES 2021?! Is everyone abandoning it because of sweet spot problems, etc.?”

But since I put the G2 on, “Wow! It’s a keeper!” It’s my first VR headset ever. I think with custom lens inserts to correct my less than perfect unaided vision, I’ll be very happy with foveal vision sharpness just around the sweet spot. As a wearer of progressive bifocals as my everyday glasses, I know that one can learn to be perfectly happy with blurry peripheral vision if central vision through the part of the lens you’re looking is very sharp.

As of this moment, the HP Store says a G2 order now will ship on 1/21/21. (although, Whoops!, there’s now a red BACKORDER logo by the “Ships by 1/21/21.”)

HP Reverb G2 Virtual Reality Headset| HP® Official Store

@CptLucky8, in that case I’m just going to leave well enough alone, and run with what I’ve got, as it seems like it’s about as good as it’s going to get until some driver or software optimizations (that I have zero control over) enable better results. And/or I simply break down at some point and buy better hardware, which is of course inevitable, it’s simply a question of when, not if.

Assuming I live long enough anyway lol…

But I see it like the difference between a diamond and a cubic zirconia. If I need an expert with a loupe to tell me which is which, then it doesn’t really matter to me.

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What’s the reason for disabling “Game Mode” in windows settings ?
Windows would be making certain performance optimizations that would benefit the overall gaming experience.

Is there a particular disadvantage to having it enabled ?

Here is the Microsoft docs on game mode
Use Game Mode while gaming on your Windows 10 device | Xbox Support

@nOksX, mostly because lots of smart people have tested it, and it has consistently shown itself to hurt performance more than it helps. I haven’t tested it myself, which would technically violate the scientific method I guess, but based on those relatively consistent test results from others, that’s what I decided to do during my tweaking and testing.

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So your telling me indirectly, that the folks at Microsoft that implemented the “Game Mode” to boost performance isn’t working as planned ?

Can you link to me to that resource pointing to Game mode being a negative ?
I like to take a look at it, and post bugs with Microsoft to fix it.

@nOksX, any old google or bing search for “game mode”, or even “game mode fs2020” should provide plenty.

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Turning off “game mode” is pretty much step 1 for any optimization guide (sim-wise,) that I’ve seen. MSFS, DCS, iRacing, Assetto Corsa – it just doesn’t work as intended for these kind of workloads.

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