Just saying this is illegal in the EU. They cant override your rights on this, no matter what they write. It is just nobody has challenged it.
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I just did a quick look video on the update. It looks to me like they did fix a few things. Still a few weird decision. I am waiting for YT to encode. you know.
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The EU legislation is different for digital products, and so far there has not been an unified approach to this as far as I know. The storefront has to state their refunding policy prior the purchase, so theyâre complying on that. Supposedly the situation might change soon when some new regulations come to force in 2022. If someone has better information, feel free to correct.
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First look
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Where did anybody find out that the update is out and see the release notes? I must just be missing it. I just looked at the AH Facebook Page and the AH Electra product page. I havenât found the announcement nor the release notes. I bought through Orbx so I canât get or try the update yet so Iâm just curious to figure out where/how I should have been looking to see the update details.
@BostonJeremy77 Did you keep it and do you think youâll be doing an updated review after you get the update?
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Same here. Orbx does not seem to be exactly rushing to make the update available on their Orbx Central thingy 
I dropped them a line on their forum to ask about the time frame we should count with. Feel free to check:
Itâs a difficult problem. EU legislation clearly allows a no-refund policy on software since software can be easily copied and then kept illegally. So there would be nothing to stop people from buying all MSFS addons and then getting them refunded and keeping them on their hard drives anyway. This would be illegal of course, but itâs basically unenforcable so itâs like leaving bags of money lying around on the town square at night.
So itâs clear simmarket is entitled to that policy.
Since LNBJM requested a refund via PayPal and not via Simmarket, they probably considered that a breach of contract or even an attempt at theft. The way they reacted was legally ok, but could be considered over the top. However, we do not know if anything else transpired between LNBJM and simmarket which might have aggravated the situation since we know just one side of the story.
In any case: since Simmarket has a legal no-refund policy and it can be evaded via PayPal, Simmarket has not many ways to enforce their policy. Itâs a kind of back-door-refund, so I guess deleting the account is the only thing they actually CAN do. Since they also refunded all previously bought products, thereâs not much to complain about. Every company has the right to refuse business with anyone not willing to accept their terms. So while Iâm often at odds with Simmarket, this time I canât really fault them.
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I dont think this is quite right. I can make employees sign a contract that says work for me and you get no holiday, sick pay, and must work 7 days a week. They can sign it, but a court would just over rule it, if I tried to enforce it as it is not reasonable and infringes their rights. In the UK (Not part of the EU anymore) but we still carry the laws or some of them we have statuary rights.
The EU law states:
Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised.
If you bought a product or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and without a justification.
If youâre not sure which situation applies to you, you can also try our consumer rights tool to help you understand your rights when you shop in the EU.
The plane is a product and it does not work or did workâŠ
moreover here is another set of rules:
I dont think writing your own refund policy is just going to fly, yes they can do it, but they can not say no refunds 100% and they can not shut you off from previous products.
I know its a hot bed of issues with software, but I for one do not agree with an absolute 100% no refund policy and I think if challenged in court in a lot of cases it could be ruled in the customers favour.
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If you buy a purely digital product where the merchant cannot require a âreturnâ before giving a refund or ârepossessâ it for non-payment, and then you revoke the payment you made to buy it, then yeah, the merchant is going to refuse to do business with you in the future. If they donât, there is nothing to stop you if youâre sufficiently unscrupulous from buying infinite numbers of their products and then reversing the charge on each one, essentially acquiring their whole catalog for free. A dispute through PayPal or credit card charge back is an extreme measure I would only take if I donât care about transacting business with the merchant in question ever again because I would expect them to refuse to do so on their side if I ever tried.
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First of all the term ânot workingâ or âdefectiveâ is highly subjective in this case and I serioysly doubt you can make a case for that.
The AH Electra clearly works, but at an insufficient level considering the price. But thatâs also highly subjective. Just take a PMDG DC-6 and a CaptainSim 777. The Electra is far worse than the DC-6 but still far superior to the 777, so according to that way of thinking the 777 is defective too? No it isnât. Itâs just a bad product, and making a bad product may be annoying but isnât illegal, and the customer also should be aware that there is bad quality out there and get some info about the product before buying.
And even if you could make a point with the ânot workingâ aaproch the manufacturer would still have the right to improve upon the product in a reasonable amount of time (which they now have)
So no matter how you look at it: especially at a price tag around 30,- youâd be laughed out of court.
The refund policy is not made up. Itâs perfectly legal. Full Stop. The EU law you put in as a reference does not include digital products that hsve been downloaded, as we as some other stuff.
https://op.europa.eu/webpub/grow/factsheets/shopping-online/en/
About the case you linked: AFAIK this is for apps and other proprietary or server-based stuff that can be deactivated remotely. So the seller has an easy way to ensure the software can no longer be illegally used. This would also work with MSFS itself. Without access to the MS servers itâs pretty useless and cannot be updated
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I purchased it direct from Aeroplane Heaven and got an email from then telling me about the update this morning. That was nice.
Really like that they added the Amelia Earhart version because I plan on using this plane to re-fly her around the world attempt.
Pretty nice list of fixes in this 1.1 release too. Still not perfect but definitely improved. And nice to know that they are listening.
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As a reply to my own post, I have learned through an AH help e-mail reply that the announcement, along with the change log, will be posted on Facebook today. I had lost track of the time difference and wasnât thinking about the fact that the update came out late last night Australia time. It is morning there now, so the announcement on Facebook should be within the next several hours I would think. Also, since Orbx is based in Australia (as far as I know), maybe the updated version will appear on Orbx within the next 8 hours too. Iâm looking forward to trying it out. I would love to get this bad taste out of my mouth and make the Electra one of my go-to planes, despite the fact that Iâm still bothered by the fact that the center of the yoke doesnât align with the center of the seat. 
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Apollo - to answer your questions:
ADF is working.
DME is not working. Confirmed in the documentation.
Other notesâŠ
The engine sounds are perfect now. not so loud.
The pilotâs window slides opens. However, there is no difference in the sound level if you open the window.
The flaps indicator works. So a lot has been fixed. Nice update.
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Thanks for testing things and reporting back. I think that the fact that the engines donât get any quieter with the window closed is the indicator of why the engines were too loud in the cockpit to begin with. AH wanted realistically loud engines, which is great, but I think the realism should have included the fact that the cockpit would have SOME sound damping. It may not have been a big amount in the real plane, but there would have been SOME. It seems like AH canât make the sounds in this model dynamic at all. Otherwise, why would opening and closing the window make no difference?
At any rate, while I think having the sound level change with the window position would be realistic and would be expected in a high-end model, Iâm OK at this point with just having the engine sounds in the cockpit lowered to the point that I can actually hear the ATC.
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Just check ⊠It is confirmed Orbx has the updated 1.1.0
After testing:
Itâs definitely better with the patch.
â The sounds are greatly improved.
â The choice to split the Sperry autopilot and Garmin options into separate aircraft is a good one.
â The Garmin autopilot has been upgraded to a G3000, which is much larger and easier to read from the pilot POV.
â The Garmin autopilot holds its course better now.
â The flaps indicator works now.
â Side windows open (but no change in sound due to legacy sound being used)
â I havenât been able to test the Sperry yet
â ADF works
â The patch notes say that tailwheel lock works now, but I didnât test that.
Still needs work:
â The cameras are still unfathomably terrible.
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I see that the listing in the Orbx store is showing 1.1.0 (still with the original release date, which may be the way it is normally done), but in the âMy Productsâ area of Orbx Central there is no indication that an update is available or needed. There is no âupdateâ button. I could uninstall and re-install but was kind of hoping to see the update clearly shown in Orbx Central. Maybe I just need to wait longer (or reboot).
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Tailwheel lock is fixed (was actually fixed even in the 1.0 Electra after SU6 was installed).
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I have also verified the other fixes you mentioned @DaveR44.
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Are you sure you saw the Garmin G3000 being used in the âModernâ version of the Electra? Mine is still using the Garmin GX3 (touch):
Regardless, seems like a great update.
That being said, here are a couple things I have noticed:
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GPS: Seems to have a REALLY hard time holding the route correctly when making sharp turns. For example, if I take off, clear the runway and climb to the point where Iâm ready to turn on the GPS, unless my course is pretty close to the initial GPS waypoint, the Electra will wander back and forth wildly trying to line up for that point. Itâs bad enough that I typically will hand-fly the plane to where Iâm pretty much lined up on the route to the first waypoint before I engage AP.
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Sperry. Once you have pressed the Elevator knob on the Sperry and activated Altitude Hold, I canât seem to turn that off ever again. So, the only way to change altitude from that point on is to turn off the Sperry and manually fly to your new altitude while manually holding the current heading (since the Sperry is off), and then turn the Sperry back on once youâre at the new Altitude. Maybe this is by design, but it seems a little flakey, like if I was able to depress the knob to activate Altitude Hold, I should be able to press it again to deactivate it.
Again, happy with the update though! Nice to see movement on this beautiful bird.
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It is the new updated. I just installed and tested fly. it is now has 3 version⊠one of those is amelia earhart electra
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