To do the Doolittle Raiders, they would have to surprise us with a bonus B version in the package.
Oh, look!
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Imagine my chagrin when I saw that this morning! My point was, they did a tribute to āHot Genā even though it was an earlier variant. They could have done the same with the Doolittle Raiders and I wouldāve been happy enough. But of course, this is much much better! Pending reviews, this just became a must buy for me!
So the preview screenshots of their āB-25Bā show it with:
- A B-25J-generation rear fuselage. The rear fuselage, from just aft of the bomb bay, all the way to the tail, was of different geometry on all of the early variants of the B-25, up until the B-25H and J, where the upper portion of the fuselage on the early B-25s tapered downward to a much greater extent than the B-25J (the early B-25s also had a different angle of incidence for the horizontal stabilizers as compared to the B-25H/J).
- The B-25B didnāt have the three-piece pilot windscreen.
- The B-25B glass nose framing was different than the J.
- The B-25B didnāt have the side armor plating.
- The B-25B didnāt have the extendable trailing antenna.
- The B-25B had rear-facing scoops atop the starboard wing oil cooler exit ducts.
ā¦but who cares, right? As long as it has two engines, two tails and tricycle landing gear.
I wonder if theyāll at least depict the patched-over section of the lower fuselage where the ventral turrets were removed from all of the Doolittle Raid B-25s.
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Itās also curious that in AHās most recent screenshots, all of their B-25Js now have the armor plate section added to the three-piece pilot windscreen. AHās answer to this is that B-25Js during WWII had it, so all of theirs have it now too. The problem with this is that B-25Js with that armor plate added to the three-piece windscreen was the minority during WWII, not the majority. Most B-25Js operated with just the plexiglass three-pieced windscreen. The armor plate was added to those which flew strafing and low-level attack missions. Those which flew standard medium-altitude bombing missions didnāt have that (such as āBriefing Timeā and āAngel of Mercyā). Furthermore, a couple of the liveries that AH is including - āMy Buckā and āLady Lilā - are very late-production B-25Js which didnāt have the three-piece pilot windscreen at all.
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I think we have pretty much come to the understanding that MSFS is a sandbox environment - in the sense that it is open to any level of authenticity and fidelity that any developer cares to commit to.
That they have developed a very general understanding of their median user base and created a very āfree rangeā environment for addon aircraft products and that the developers have the freedom to create products that fit into that range at the point where each can balance investment against returns. We have the freedom to add to our individual hangars from that range of available addons as we wish. Nothing is forced on us.
In a perfect world this flight sim would only offer perfect airplane models - we would have every type ever made and they would look, sound, and fly EXACTLY as they should according to every reliable or official manufacturers reference data.
We donāt live in that world. Dare to dream and make your callouts for better fidelity, but I see no reason to belittle or denigrate the developers or fellow flight simmers in the process.
Good hunting.
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There is no spoon
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best when you finally realize there never was
In years and projects past, Aeroplane Heavenās response to any criticisms was always simply that itās all just a game, and the aircraft are just cartoons. I was 100% fine with that, never looked at their products critically, and was a proud supporter of the developer. That all changed, in the last year or so, when they began making statements such as, āwe model from accurate drawingsā (when an individual asked on their Facebook page about the accuracy of the shape of the gunship nose on their B-25J, which is so obviously not accurate, but even that I donāt mind). When I see things like that, which are such flat-out lies, it feels like a direct insult to our intelligence. I also just really wish they would slow down a bit, and put some more time in their development work.
BTW, I never intended to become āone of those peopleā, as my presence in this thread makes me out to be, and Iāll leave you all in peace now.
I wasnāt intending to single anyone out - itās just the tone and tenor of the squawks in general and specifically on these boards that seem to begin right from a position of outrage and pessimism that I find to be less than helpful.
It doesnāt absolve the developers who might tend to round a few too many corners or respond (again largely on this board) as if any criticism at all is unfounded or uninformed.
But thereās a reason both things are occurring here more than on the other one or two forums for discussion on MSFS flight sims and products that I prefer to this one.
Itās the general slide from civility to confrontational discourse - especially around certain developersā products - even before they are released.
You arenāt that guy any more or less than anyone else. As aviation enthusiasts we all have our favorites or āmost studiedā aircraft and have a particular eye for their fidelity. When we spot a thing it seems glaring and impossible to miss. Itās easy to let our passion take over our typing fingers immediately instead of setting that aside and making a dispassionate squawk list - either for this board or in direct communication with the dev. .
I donāt know what the answer is to this situation because frustration and confrontation seem to be the flavors of the decade across the globe - itās getting serious out there just now as we all know. Maybe instead of coming here for stress reduction I need to consider removing myself for a while.
Itās not as relaxing as it used to be.
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Sort of. When a developer does a very mid-effort job on a very popular aircraft, what is āforcedā on us is the fact that weāll likely never see one done to a higher standard. We end up stuck with something on the bad to average scale. OK, so Iāll admit I canāt truly judge this specific B-25 as itās not out yet but based on their previous efforts I donāt expect this one to suddenly be amazing. But what I do expect is that this one, good or bad, means we will never get something like a Flying Iron B-25 or Black Square B-25 or A2A B-25. Weāve seen it countless times where a mid- to low-effort release beats something better out of the gate and then competing projects, no matter how far along, payware or freeware, from a new or old company, get cancelled.
Personally I mourn the loss of what could have been when some companies announce projects.
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I canāt wait for this aircraft to be released. From the screenshots and looking at the manual , I think this will be a great addition to the simulator. I will be trying to do some repaints of RCAF post war B-25s but I donāt think if the aircraft is not configured exactly as I see in a picture, it will deter me from trying to paint close representation. I did structural repair and modification on many of the same model types of aircraft for many years. I saw and installed many different modifications to specific aircraft many times in my career which resulted in multiple configurations on the same model of aircraft. I can understand people that want complete historical accuracy but it is after all a simulator and I have been very satisfied with the AH Lancaster, P-51D Mustang as well as several others. I really hope they release this right away as it will be an instant buy for me. I know some really exceptional livery artists who also strive for perfection in their liveries. I think AH does a great job developing their products and bringing them to the flightsim community. People who love aviation often strive for perfection which is commendable. Please release this iconic warbird as soon as possible.
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I can agree with some of this - but your main concern - that one developer, by rushing a lesser efforted aircraft to market to āstrike firstā and thereby dissuade competition is a red herring.
If the first B-25 (for example) out of the gate has glaring and unresolved issues I think we have seen that lead to better efforts and more choices eventually - maybe not in the fastest way, but eventually we often see this actually encourages competition over the most coveted or iconic aircraft - to challenge the first born.
Granted if a good producer makes a high fidelity Me109, or F6F, or FW there likely wont ever be another - but if many of those āotherā developers we know from āMarketplaceā build a Rafele or A10 we can rest assured a more betterer one will be along in due course.
I hope this offering from AH will be fairly good - I actually expect it to be. But Iāll wait to see before I release funds at it. We have the luxury of having youtubers who are willing to preview these models for the community so we can observe for ourselves what they seem to be. Then we have our talented 3rd party repainters who can be relied upon to put their efforts only into models of a certain quality.
Have I ever bought a plane immediately because it was a type I favored - before seeing any reviews? yep and have I regretted it when that thang wasnāt proper? yep so in that sense I guess āforced to buyā is a relative term - relative to oneās own will power anyway.
All good thoā¦I think
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All very good points as I have also made hasty purchases to regret it later. I will try to remain optimistic about this upcoming release. AH have been good for the most part. The stuff that bothers me in particular is the very poor quality I see in the Marketplace ( I have many Marketplace purchases) although I have a large mix of purchases from many developers. I will be buying right from AH or ORBX and definitely not getting the B-25 from the Marketplace. Hoping we get this bird soon.
FYI, Iām not even talking about the Mscenery-level of dev in the Marketplace. Ideally, those have no impact on anything in terms of the more ārealā devs.
Itās not so much the ārushingā as some things take years and then come out very disappointing. Lancaster springs to mind. But, off the top of my head*,* hereās a list of aircraft that have been started, partially completed, confirmed or unconfirmed, then cancelled or at least delayed in a major way due to another dev doing a mid-level one*:* DC-3, C-47, P-47, Hurricane, B-17, 707, MU-2, ATR, CRJ, Saab 340, Pilatus PC-24, Shorts Skyvan, and Lockheed Constellation
Thatās on top of things that are incredibly popular in sims in general, got released at a mid-level, and havenāt even had a rumour of competition. What I wouldnāt give for a decent Cessna 140, Hurricane, Twin Otter, or Maule. I appreciate the irony in bringing up the Maule here as we have 2 of them.
Iād love to have your optimism about this B-25 but I canāt help but see most of the things the other dude posted about. Thatās on top of AHās typically less-than-stellar sounds, randomly poor textures, animation errors, etc. Their track record just doesnāt warrant optimism from me.
Iām not asking for perfection (as it doesnāt exist) but just perhaps enough to give some semblance of the experience.
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My friends would laugh out loud to hear me referred to as an optimist in any sense but I see you.
You make valid points - I guess as I get older Iām getting tired of being critical about literally everything I see. Speaking only of myself and not making any judgements here.
I used to tilt at every windmill until age has made me realize the lance is getting heavy - and almost none of the windmills are dragons at all - Just the products of folks who care less about things than I (used to) do.
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that was me that asked and yes it seems a bit smashed
I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly but are some people seriously suggesting that if Aeroplane Heaven produce something it denies the opportunity for another developer to produce the same subject? Seriously? I have never heard such nonsense. So we are to work slower or not produce at all so that others get an opportunity to develop something? Come on.
I have only this to say. There are at least four Zeros out there, several Bf109s, two Hurricanes and many Spitfires . Shortly there will be two B17s maybe more - we hope so - competition is healthy and good for business.We have been producing product successfully for over 25 years. We are not about to stop. We make what we WANT to make, when we WANT. If people donāt like what they see, fine, they donāt have to buy. That has never bothered us and never will.
Just one other thing. Please do us the courtesy of waiting for a release before throwing the knives.
Have fun everyone, thatās supposed to be what this game is all about.
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Of course everyone is free to develop what they wish regardless. But there is no denying that the chance for another developer tackling the same aircraft is lower when there already is another version of that aircraft out. It will no doubt diminish the sales numbers and feasibilty, because many users will only ever buy one iteration of a certain aircraft.
For example: FlyingIron Simulations put their B-17 on hold once Microprose announced theirs. Another example of a cancelled aircraft, because another developer released an iteration of that aircraft first: Milviz cancelled their ATR once Microsoft announced theirs.
Both of which for sure are a loss, because both of these aircraft, without a doubt, would have been superior to the ones we ultimately got.
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What is the ultimate goal here? Are we trying to get AH to stop development of the B-25 because some other developer that some users may or may not consider superior, may want to develop one someday?
ā¦and the chances of that maybe happening need to be higher by not having another B-25 out there to possibly detract sales from a theoretical non-existent product?
A better strategy would be to POLITELY submit your requests/observations to the current developers support system. Then they can decide if itās in their scope to address those concerns.
If that isnāt an acceptable solution you can still continue to wait for another developer to make a different product.
Step back, take a look at as many points of view as you can, then decide if itās worth any outrage.
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Nah, I just threw in my 2 cents to what others said. Iām pretty happy with the recent AH releases (especially with the new focus on good sounds) and I like what I see in the B-25, thatās why I opened this topic as soon as I found out. This will be a day one purchase for me, regardless of the upfront criticism provided.
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