Cruise Altitude for Non-Pressurized Aircraft

I’ve been flying the Embraer EMB-110 and would like to designate a realistic cruise altitude in the flight plan.

The problem is, I don’t know what that is.

According to the POH, this aircraft had an optional supplemental oxygen system. However, after a thorough examination of the three variant aircraft from NextGen Simulations, it would appear they do not have this equipment. Additionally, for those unfamiliar, these aircraft are not pressurized.

Therefore, what altitude would aircraft of similar type and equipment level typically cruise at? An internet search didn’t really provide me with the desired information.

Thanks!

Was chatting with a real world pilot the other day while flying the CT182T. He asked what altitude I was at and asked “you got your oxygen mask on?”

At or above 12,500 feet for more than 30 minutes, oxygen on.

As for optimal cruise altitudes for each aircraft you’d have to look at the POH.

If memory serves, in the U.S. at least, if you do not have supplemental oxygen you’d remain below 12500ft.

I may be off a little on that as I never needed to go that high anyhow, and it was a long time ago… But for rough numbers that should get you in the ballpark.

Therein lies the rub. The entirety of Section V is missing from the POH minus the first two pages with an example fuel use flight plan. Nothing to be gleaned from that, unfortunately.

Which aircraft are you looking to find it for?

As mentioned in the OP, EMB-110.

Worthy of note – If you’re above 14k for any amount of time it is required for the pilots, and I think at 15k it is also mandatory for all passengers. (again, with a grain of salt there as I never did that kind of flying and my memory might not be exact)

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Here are the guidelines.

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Ok, if 12,500’ is the cutoff, would a realistic cruise be a 1000-1500’ cushion? You’d probably not put it right on the threshold, so to speak.

Generally speaking 10k is your line for margin… Not a requirement, just advised.

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Here is a wikipedia quote that better tells it.

Aircraft[edit]

In airliners, cabin altitude during flight is kept above sea level in order to reduce stress on the pressurized part of the fuselage; this stress is proportional to the difference in pressure inside and outside the cabin. In a typical commercial passenger flight, the cabin altitude is programmed to rise gradually from the altitude of the airport of origin to a regulatory maximum of 8,000 ft (2,400 m). This cabin altitude is maintained while the aircraft is cruising at its maximum altitude and then reduced gradually during descent until the cabin pressure matches the ambient air pressure at the destination.[citation needed]

Keeping the cabin altitude below 8,000 ft (2,400 m) generally prevents significant hypoxia, altitude sickness, decompression sickness, and barotrauma.[5] Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations in the U.S. mandate that under normal operating conditions, the cabin altitude may not exceed this limit at the maximum operating altitude of the aircraft.[6] This mandatory maximum cabin altitude does not eliminate all physiological problems; passengers with conditions such as pneumothorax are advised not to fly until fully healed, and people suffering from a cold or other infection may still experience pain in the ears and sinuses.[citation needed] The rate of change of cabin altitude strongly affects comfort as humans are sensitive to pressure changes in the inner ear and sinuses and this has to be managed carefully. Scuba divers flying within the “no fly” period after a dive are at risk of decompression sickness because the accumulated nitrogen in their bodies can form bubbles when exposed to reduced cabin pressure.

The cabin altitude of the Boeing 767 is typically about 7,000 feet (2,100 m) when cruising at 37,000 feet (11,000 m).[7] This is typical for older jet airliners. A design goal for many, but not all, newer aircraft is to provide a lower cabin altitude than older designs. This can be beneficial for passenger comfort.[8] For example, the Bombardier Global Express business jet can provide a cabin altitude of 4,500 ft (1,400 m) when cruising at 41,000 feet (12,000 m).[9][10][11] The Emivest SJ30 business jet can provide a sea-level cabin altitude when cruising at 41,000 feet (12,000 m).[12][13][unreliable source?] One study of eight flights in Airbus A380 aircraft found a median cabin pressure altitude of 6,128 feet (1,868 m), and 65 flights in Boeing 747-400 aircraft found a median cabin pressure altitude of 5,159 feet (1,572 m).[14]

Before 1996, approximately 6,000 large commercial transport airplanes were assigned a type certificate to fly up to 45,000 ft (14,000 m) without having to meet high-altitude special conditions.[15] In 1996, the FAA adopted Amendment 25-87, which imposed additional high-altitude cabin pressure specifications for new-type aircraft designs. Aircraft certified to operate above 25,000 ft (7,600 m) “must be designed so that occupants will not be exposed to cabin pressure altitudes in excess of 15,000 ft (4,600 m) after any probable failure condition in the pressurization system”.[16] In the event of a decompression that results from “any failure condition not shown to be extremely improbable”, the plane must be designed such that occupants will not be exposed to a cabin altitude exceeding 25,000 ft (7,600 m) for more than 2 minutes, nor to an altitude exceeding 40,000 ft (12,000 m) at any time.[16] In practice, that new Federal Aviation Regulations amendment imposes an operational ceiling of 40,000 ft (12,000 m) on the majority of newly designed commercial aircraft.[17][18] Aircraft manufacturers can apply for a relaxation of this rule if the circumstances warrant it. In 2004, Airbus acquired an FAA exemption to allow the cabin altitude of the A380 to reach 43,000 ft (13,000 m) in the event of a decompression incident and to exceed 40,000 ft (12,000 m) for one minute. This allows the A380 to operate at a higher altitude than other newly designed civilian aircraft.[17]

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While helpful and informative regarding pressurization and it’s limitations, it doesn’t quite apply to the non-pressurized aircraft I’m in the midst of solving this puzzle for.

I’m thinking, based on the FAA regulations you provided, that 10000-11000’ is a safe bet.

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I had to look it up again, so here is a summation,

When the altitude of an airplane is less than 12,500 feet, there is no supplemental oxygen required for anyone in a private plane.

From 12,500 feet to 14,000 feet, supplemental oxygen must be used by the required flight crew for any portion of the flight that is more than 30 minutes. So a brief excursion upward to, say, 13,000 feet, with a return to below 12,000 feet within 15 minutes or so, is completely legal and does not require supplemental oxygen. But as soon as those 30 minutes are up, the required flight crew must be using supplemental oxygen. Notice that, at this point, there is no requirement to provide any supplemental oxygen for passengers. It’s a little easier to sightsee or maybe read a magazine that it is to fly an airplane!

Between 14,000 feet and 15,000 feet, all required flight crew members must be using oxygen all the time. Also, oxygen for passengers must be available. Notice that passengers are not required to use the supplemental oxygen; it simply must be available to them.

Above 15,000 feet, everybody must be using supplemental oxygen all the time. Remember, we’re talking about non-pressurized airplanes.

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The FAA suggests 10k… But again, its not a hard line. Supplemental ox is recommended above 10k

For flights at night, 6k – As seen in the PDF above, this is because vision is quick to deteriorate with dropping O2 in the blood.

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Yes, all of that makes a ton of sense.

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I can tell you from personal experience, that depending on conditions, 10k is a pretty smart line.

Back in the 80’s when there were a lot more smokers in the world I had a friend light up a cigarette in the plane at about 8500ft. (There were ashtrays in it, so he figured it was fine and didn’t ask). Cigarette smoke changes your physiological altitude fast, and I was very quickly noticing changes in my perception of our unchanged situation (I no longer believed my altimeter was correct because of this). I felt it was likely because of the smoke but was unsure.

Since it was a 172, it was easy to get the windows open and get a little fresh air, while I got my ding-dong passenger to extinguish his smoke… Meanwhile I was talking to ATC verifying altimeter etc as I was no longer confident in anything I was seeing.

After a few minutes, all was fine… But it was unplesant, and I wouldn’t want to repeat it. After that everyone got explicit instructions not to smoke regardless of Cessnas having ashtrays. :wink:

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Oh yeah, that CO is going to bind faster than O2 and you’re going to be hitting hypoxia much faster.

That must have been a pretty weird sensation.

It was unnerving to say the least. I’m glad I recognized fast what was probably going on, but I now have a very clear picture of how it works. So, it was a learning thing, and I’m not sorry to have it in my bag of knowledge.

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Hey @NixonRedgrave,

Scroll down that page to find the following, that i think you might be looking for:

  • Cruise speed: 411 km/h (255 mph, 222 kn) maximum at 2,440 m (8,005 ft)
  • Economical cruise speed: 341 km/h (212 mph; 184 kn) at 3,050 m (10,007 ft)
  • Range: 1,964 km (1,220 mi, 1,060 nmi) econ. cruise + 45 min reserve
  • Service ceiling: 6,550 m (21,490 ft)

Woof ~ Woof & Salute!

Steiny

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That certainly isn’t going to happen without a supplemental oxygen system!

But the stat re: economical cruise @ 10k seems like a sound plan.

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