CTDs with V-SYNC OFF and G-SYNC ON with no FPS Limits

SmiledSpy927040 · June 28, 2022, 12:49am

Thank you using the Bug section, using templates provided will greatly help the team reproducing the issue and ease the process of fixing it.

Are you using Developer Mode or made changes in it?

No

I have also tried all the following:

a downgrade of drivers

an upgrade of drivers

a full clean install via the NVIDIA installer

A full clean install via the Windows Device Manager uninstaller

Full re-install of Flight Simulator with no add-ons and nothing in my community folder

Full Windows re-install

Brief description of the issue:

When V-SYNC is set to OFF with no FPS limit and using G-SYNC, the game will CTD at menu or in-flight

Provide Screenshot(s)/video(s) of the issue encountered:

Detailed steps to reproduce the issue encountered:

Disable V-SYNC. Enable G-SYNC (you need a G-SYNC monitor) and make sure not to have any FPS limiter and to get over 40+ FPS in menu or in game.

PC specs and/or peripheral set up if relevant:

Operating System: Windows 10 Home 64-bit (10.0, Build 19044) (19041.vb_release.191206-1406)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd.
System Model: MS-7B12
BIOS: 1.80 (type: UEFI)
Processor: Intel(R) Core™ i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.6GHz
Memory: 32768MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 32692MB RAM
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080
Device Problem Code: No Problem
Driver Problem Code: Unknown
Display Memory: 24356 MB
Dedicated Memory: 8010 MB
Shared Memory: 16346 MB
Current Mode: 2560 x 1440 (32 bit) (144Hz)
HDR Support: Supported
Display Topology: Internal
Display Color Space: DXGI_COLOR_SPACE_RGB_FULL_G22_NONE_P709
Color Primaries: Red(0.682617,0.309570), Green(0.272461,0.671875), Blue(0.150391,0.046875), White Point(0.313477,0.329102)
Display Luminance: Min Luminance = 0.000000, Max Luminance = 603.698425, MaxFullFrameLuminance = 603.698425
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: ROG XG279Q
Monitor Id: AUS278D
Native Mode: 2560 x 1440(p)

Can provide DxDiag to mods upon request.

Build Version # when you first started experiencing this issue:

1.26.5.0

WORKAROUNDS with V-SYNC OFF

60 FPS limit via NVIDIA Control Panel = No immediate CTD when in Menu right after game load but still getting random CTDs in flight (mainly in the first 10 minutes).

40 FPS limit via NVIDIA Control Panel = No CTDs at all.

For anyone who wants to contribute on this issue, Click on the button below to use this template:

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

NightfallGER · June 28, 2022, 9:23am

Hello.

This reminds me of an Problem that i posted months ago. I have similar Problems but i did not come to the idea that could be a G Sync Problem.

I did a few things and ended up with that 40 FPS Cap so i can avoid that CTD.

Suprisingly we are using the same GPU. Here is the link to my Thread: CTD in DX11 mode without FPS Cap

We found there a few others with the same Problem and they are using the 2080 too.

Thanks for your Thread! Maybe this is the last step to proove that there is a Problem with the 2080 and with the newest infos a problem with G Sync too!

I name the Peoples form the other Thread, i hope they read it and can tell us if they use G Sync too.
@ Grzybciu @ Housefrau3355 @ HethrMasn @ DrivenImpala805 @ Lynkk @ adamziek

SerpaFox · June 28, 2022, 1:53pm

Hey,

Same bug, but different hardware. I applied the same solution and no CTDs so far…

The bug happened in the loading of flight screens and at the top of the descent. Before the CTDs I notice an increase in CPU and a rapid decrease in FPS.

Nome do Sistema Operacional	Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Versão	10.0.19044 Compilação 19044
Outra Descrição do Sistema Operacional	Não disponível
Fabricante do Sistema Operacional	Microsoft Corporation
Nome do sistema	DESKTOP-TAHBHQD
Fabricante do sistema	To Be Filled By O.E.M.
Modelo do sistema	B450M Steel Legend
Tipo do sistema	PC baseado em X64
SKU do sistema	To Be Filled By O.E.M.
Processador	AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor, 3701 Mhz, 12 Núcleo(s), 24 Processador(es) Lógico(s)
Versão/data do BIOS	American Megatrends Inc. P4.30, 25/02/2022
Versão do SMBIOS	3.3
Versão do Controlador Incorporado	255.255
Modo da BIOS	UEFI
Fabricante da BaseBoard	ASRock
Produto BaseBoard	B450M Steel Legend
Versão da BaseBoard
Função da Plataforma	Área de Trabalho
Estado da Inicialização Segura	Desativado
Configuração PCR7	Ligação Impossível
Pasta do Windows	C:\Windows
Pasta do sistema	C:\Windows\system32
Dispositivo de inicialização	\Device\HarddiskVolume1
Localidade	Brasil
Camada de Abstração de Hardware	Versão = 10.0.19041.1741
Nome de usuário	DESKTOP-TAHBHQD\fabio
Fuso horário	Hora oficial do Brasil
Memória Física (RAM) Instalada	32,0 GB
Memória física total	31,9 GB
Memória física disponível	26,4 GB
Memória virtual total	63,2 GB
Memória virtual disponível	55,6 GB
Espaço do arquivo de paginação	31,3 GB
Arquivo de paginação	C:\pagefile.sys
Proteção de DMA de Kernel	Desativado
Segurança baseada em virtualização	Não habilitado
Suporte à Criptografia de Dispositivo	Motivos da falha da criptografia de dispositivo automática: TPM não utilizável, Associação PCR7 não compatível, Falha na Interface de Teste de Segurança de Hardware, e o dispositivo não está em Espera Moderna, Barramento/dispositivos compatíveis com DMA não permitidos detectados, TPM não utilizável
Hyper-V - Extensões de Modo Monitor VM	Sim
Hyper-V - Extensões de Conversão de Endereços de Segundo Nível	Sim
Hyper-V - Virtualização Habilitada no Firmware	Sim
Hyper-V - Proteção de Execução de Dados	Sim

Nome	NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070
Identificação de dispositivo PNP	PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_2488&SUBSYS_153A10DE&REV_A1\4&1FC990D7&0&0019
Tipo de adaptador	NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070, compatível com NVIDIA
Descrição do adaptador	NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070
Memória RAM do adaptador	(1.048.576) bytes
Drivers instalados	C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispig.inf_amd64_c43eff7079c4c90c\nvldumdx.dll,C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispig.inf_amd64_c43eff7079c4c90c\nvldumdx.dll,C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispig.inf_amd64_c43eff7079c4c90c\nvldumdx.dll,C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nv_dispig.inf_amd64_c43eff7079c4c90c\nvldumdx.dll
Versão do driver	31.0.15.1640
Arquivo INF	oem6.inf (seção Section072)
Planos de cores	Não disponível
Entradas da tabela de cores	4294967296
Resolução	2560 x 1080 x 59 Hertz
Bits/Pixel	32
Endereço de memória	0xFB000000-0xFC0FFFFF
Endereço de memória	0xD0000000-0xE1FFFFFF
Endereço de memória	0xE0000000-0xE1FFFFFF
Porta de E/S	0x0000E000-0x0000EFFF
Canal IRQ	IRQ 4294967253
Porta de E/S	0x000003B0-0x000003BB
Porta de E/S	0x000003C0-0x000003DF
Endereço de memória	0xA0000-0xBFFFF
Driver	C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERSTORE\FILEREPOSITORY\NV_DISPIG.INF_AMD64_C43EFF7079C4C90C\NVLDDMKM.SYS (31.0.15.1640, 41,66 MB (43.683.808 bytes), 21/06/2022 18:24)

SmiledSpy927040 · June 28, 2022, 2:11pm

@SerpaFox @NightfallGER please vote topic if you don’t mind so it gets attention.

I feel it’s more a problem with the game vs. GPU. I have no issues with any other games with Vsyns off and GSync on.

PacificSet90456 · June 28, 2022, 3:11pm

G-Sync on or off shouldn’t cause any CTDs because it is hardware/software in the GPU and monitor to dynamically change the monitor refresh rate to the FPS output. Windows doesn’t know about G-sync except through NVIDIA Control Panel. MSFS doesn’t know about G-sync.

If you suspect G-sync causing CTDs, then NVIDIA should be contacted for support.

In general, NVIDIA driver problems could potentially cause a CTD if Windows detects a problem (“hardware error” in the Event Log). Windows will kill any graphics apps to restart the driver.

I’ve had G-sync on and V-sync off for almost two years across multiple NVIDIA drivers and MSFS updates without any CTDs attributable to G-sync that I know of.

SmiledSpy927040 · June 28, 2022, 3:43pm

I don’t think it’s actually gsync but more an issue with vsync off and high fps

ITDreamFly · June 29, 2022, 7:04am

Please check if your GPU is overheating.
Limiting FPS or undervolting (if done right) prevents the problem.
In my case the GPU factory settings work for every Game and stress test, except MSFS. The kind of load generated by MSFS in the menu without clicking on anything is so high, that it would bring my GPU to 100C immediately and the longer it runs the hotter it gets until it CTDs or your PC restarts.
So if you let it run in the menu for a while without doing anything and no fps limit etc. and it crashes, I think there is a very good chance this is your issue.

MichaMMA · June 29, 2022, 3:57pm

I agree… the issue is nothing about V/G-Sync… it is the “no fps Limit” and in case a PC crash with “no fps limit” and works fine “with a limit”, it is usually a hardware issue ( mainly over-heating ).

We can also see that, if the OP set a “not sufficent” limit, then he can play some-minutes - again this point to overheating.

PS: and also V-Sync must enabled if G-Sync will be used

SmiledSpy927040 · June 29, 2022, 10:40pm

I did multiple stress test and passed and not overheating.

I played other AAA games countless of hours in the past 6 months and no crash (wasn’t playing MSFS for the past 6months) and other high FPS games (DOOM at 150FPS) no problems.

The crashes in the menu when I didn’t limit FPS were INSTANT like 2-3 seconds after the game finished loading. After I set the limit to 60FPS, no crash in menu.

I was still getting crashes after maybe 2 minutes loading in game but after setting a limit of 40FPS no crashes.

SmiledSpy927040 · June 29, 2022, 10:51pm

PS: and also V-Sync must enabled if G-Sync will be used

That’s wrong. If you’re using G-Sync, you should turn off V-Sync in games.

ITDreamFly · June 29, 2022, 10:56pm

Sounds exactly like an overheating issue.
Please check your gpu temp in the menu e.g. with task manager. I had the same problem. 3d mark and all other stress tests/ AAA games were fine but with MSFS your GPU gets hotter than normal. Anything near or above 90C would indicate that this is probably the issue.

SerpaFox · June 30, 2022, 12:27am

I think you’re wrong.

My GPU’s around 75 C and and the bug happens. I underclock the GPU to 80% and it still happens. The temperature doesn’t matter in this case. The only way to stop these CTDs, in particular, is fixing the refresh rate to 60Hz or below.

ITDreamFly · June 30, 2022, 5:50am

I could be wrong, but the symptoms and solution you described would have fitted perfectly to a temperature issue. Symptom: Does not crash immediately, but takes a few seconds. In the menu, only your gpu is hammered to 100%, not your cpu. If your system fans are cpu temp controlled, this would also mean less airflow.
Solution: FPS limit, since it lowers temps significantly.
You would have to do a low enough stable undervolt to fix the issue, if it is core temp related (3d mark should help with testing stability before trying MSFS and fur mark is able to at least stress and heat up your gpu near msfs temps, while showing temp and clock). I assume you lowered clock and voltage as you sound reasonable tech savy?
If gpu temperature is really not the cause, maybe someone else can help/has an idea. I don‘t think it is the PSU. If your hot spot gpu temp does not go above 75C you should be fine, as long as you tested right.

Fun fact: With factory settings the manufacturer gave my GPU 1.2V. With 3d mark my GPU temp goes to about 75-80C. MSFS exceeds 90C core temp.

MichaMMA · June 30, 2022, 3:18pm

we have these so often mentioned in forum why it is not wrong, that I et it on you to search the existing posts about

PS: like I did then, you have the ages old outdate rule in your mind , which was changed years ago

SmiledSpy927040 · July 3, 2022, 2:23pm

V-SYNC when ON = Possible Input Lag. Why would you ever want this ON ?

The only reason you want it ON, is if your FPS goes over your monitor’s max refresh rate, you will then get screen tearing. To avoid this, you set an FPS limit via NCP for those games…

MichaMMA · July 3, 2022, 2:30pm

may be check these topic…

SmiledSpy927040 · July 3, 2022, 8:22pm

This is the article you quote:

In the article, this is mentioned:

if V-SYNC is “On,” G-SYNC will revert to V-SYNC behavior above its range, if V-SYNC is “Off,” G-SYNC will disable above its range, and tearing will begin display wide.

The key here is ABOVE it’s range

If you limit your FPS to your monitor’s max refresh rate, you will not get tearing and V-SYNC is not needed.

From the same source but different link:

G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On”:
G-SYNC reverts to V-SYNC behavior when it can no longer adjust the refresh rate to the framerate, 2-6 frames (typically 2 frames; approximately an additional 33.2ms @60 Hz, 20ms @100 Hz, 13.8ms @144 Hz, etc) of delay is added as rendered frames begin to over-queue in both buffers, ultimately delaying their appearance on-screen.

So again, why would you want to introduce input delay with V-SYNC ON ? Instead, limit the FPS.

Note That was also published post 2015:

Published Jun 20, 2017

MichaMMA · July 6, 2022, 2:30pm

I never spoke about the delay which can happen with v-sync. The point was, there is then no max limit in fps and your hardware can seemingly not handle that. Therefore its recommended to enable both to get the same behavior as with the former G-Sync Spec. . You can also set a limit in nvidias control panel, nothing against that…

ITDreamFly · July 7, 2022, 12:43am

My 2 cents:
NVIDIA Fast Sync and AMD Enhanced Sync feel ignored. I would prefer these options compared to v-sync for high frame rates, though MSFS is nowhere near that for me. As stability would be my first concern, fps limit with v-sync off doesn‘t sound bad if paired with g-sync or freesync… Use whatever works best for you. The additional input lag should not really effect the MSFS experience either I‘d say.

ThaiSocom · July 11, 2022, 1:56pm

I been having this random CTD after 3-4 hours flight until I stumble upon this thread. Tried limiting my FPS to 40 in Nvidia Control Panel as per suggested (I still have my VSYNC off tho) in this thread and wow, set 17 hours flight from SIN to JFK, left the system running and have the AI flew it. 17 hours real time flight complete without crashing!