Current state of the 787?

Feedback is how we make it better, so always welcome. :slightly_smiling_face:

There are a couple things that we decided were a bit out of scope, like some hydraulics systems effects (though most of the synoptic symbology should be right for normal ops), but in all we would be surprised to learn that stuff was missing in normal ops type situations. So certainly always welcome any feedback.

From what I saw yesterday;

  • HUD symbology is still too thick, like itā€™s all in bold
  • The switches on the overhead panel are not in the typical position they would be after the previous crew shut the aircraft down
  • No VSD
  • Some of the cursor controls donā€™t work meaning you have to push buttons on the screen
  • There are always 3 GPUā€™s plugged in which isnā€™t realistic. You would only ever have a 3rd one attached to start an engine with a U/S APU.

As I said though, perhaps Iā€™ve been unfair. Iā€™ll take a more in-depth look as soon as I get chance.

Edited to add - I am being unfair. Iā€™ll hold my hands up. Iā€™m unfairly expecting PMDG levels of fidelity from an included aircraft which isnā€™t realistic. I know that. Iā€™m probably just grumpy that weā€™re getting loads of aircraft for this sim but no-one has taken on the 787, or seemingly the 350 either. A real shame.

At least for this one, this is where the combination of various pilots with different operators landed. We could always tweak this as we get more operator feedback.

Right now the sim has no available horizontal terrain graphics API so we opted not to devote dev resources to the VSD for this release, since the equivalent data is available on other FMC screens. We would like to bring that some time in the future, though.

Similar with the screen interaction knobs, theyā€™re so finicky to use in a sim that for the time being we felt attention was better used on dialing in things the like AP modes and the very complex VNAV behavior.

For the GPUs, we are aware of that but the sim doesnā€™t really have any more than one GPU. For now we opted to allow the pilot to use any of the external power buttons based on their preference. Not totally realistic, but the other two options were to have it randomly choose one to be AVAIL, or always choose the same one. We felt neither of those would necessarily be super compatible with external ground crew add-ons, though. These types of decisions are always a tricky compromise.

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Iā€™ll have a play with it as soon as I get chance and will send some feedback :slightly_smiling_face:

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Will there be a descent forecast via datalink for the 747 and 787 in the future?

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I think cutting the rates would make the plane much more flyable in this simulator. Nobody has a gigantic Boeing Yoke (well, maybe a few people have retrofitted one). The thing is, the keybind for the trim switch simply sends a single event ā€œincreaseā€, or ā€œdecreaseā€ trim. It doesnā€™t care what your stick is. Iā€™ve already accepted the pitchiness, but the trim is extremely frustrating.

Just try following the flight director circle with the bird on the HUD after takeoff on the PMDG 737, then the 787. The 737 works well enough, you hold your trim switch down for a while, and can dial it in quite nicely. The 787 is like ā€œone touch, overshootā€, ā€œone touch the other way, and go under the target againā€. . you get the idea. Itā€™s nowhere near as bad as the AN-225, but itā€™s pretty tough to trim it in present state.

We can certainly take a other look to doublecheck there that a bug didnā€™t get introduced, but right now it it should be that the rate of change of trim speed with the trim held down is matching the manufacturer provided documentation (in other words, the trim moment action per unit time).

Well I did a 10hr flight from CYEG-RJOO. Very much improved from the original version. Taxing is much improved, easy to maneuver on the ground.

My only nitpick is it seems a little wobbly on final approach(ground effect issue maybe??), and no Simbrief integration.

Just on this, the trim in the 787 works in a totally different way to the 737 and it does take some getting used to.

In the 73 youā€™re literally trimming away an aerodynamic load and, as youā€™re physically connected to the flying controls, itā€™s quite straightforward to feel when that load is trimmed out.

In the 787 however, obviously the whole flight control system is fly-by-wire. The trim system actually trims to the aircraft speed and it does so kinda automatically. The technique is to trim until youā€™re in the right ball-park (which you almost always are) then ā€˜blipā€™ the trim switch and the flight control system automatically sets the trim for the aircraft speed.

In a nutshell, big changes in trim and lengthly operation of the trim switches (like you would see on the 737) are not necessary, and instead you are effectively telling the system that you want to trim to your current speed. Think of it more like fine tuning.

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Iā€™m going to give the 787 a try reading all this, thanks guys!

And as typerated 787 pilot you are happy with handflying at takeoff and approach? It does not feel too light and too responsive? Does it feel like that? I cannot believe, that for example 250.000 kg behave that agile on takeoff.
When touching the runway with rear wheels the front comes down immediately even with still holding the stick back.

Iā€™d have to fly it which I havenā€™t done as yet. Twitchiness on the controls is something that blights all aircraft in the sim in my opinion, but as far as the 787 goes the flight control system is designed to make it feel very similar at all weights. You certainly donā€™t get the same feedback with it as you would a 737 for example.

The landing behaviour does sound realistic, although if you are applying aft elevator you should be able to fly the nosewheel on to the runway. If you let go when the main gear touches down youā€™d know about it. The behaviour is really exacerbated in our Cat D sim, it can be quite brutal sometimes!

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In my opinion it feels great and is fun to fly. Suddenly the MSFS de Lux package seems to give more value for the money! I have some minor issues though:

  • The green text/numbers on the PFD is very hard to read, the contrast is a bit to low for at least my eyes.

  • I have a problem with the throttle leavers, when taxiing I always accidently activate the reversers. There is no distinct detent between forward and reverse. Is it possible to configure so that reverse is only activated if you press toggle reverse thrust or whatever that button is called?

Hi, what I noticed when in external view is the autopilot looses LNAV heading! Only when you jump into cockpit plane turns toward next fix!

Iā€™ve noticed this as well. Happens with the 748 also. Wasnā€™t sure if itā€™s a conflicting add-on, but havenā€™t had chance to fully check yet.

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Hereā€™s a totally co-incident bit of feedback :grinning:;

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Itā€™s very good, I am curious to know how it compares to the Quality Wings one from FSX?

Huge respect to Working Title for the effort they put in here, and also to Asobo for working with them. This is how things should be done.

I just wish the doors would open for my GSX! :smile:

Itā€™s definitely much better than it was prior to AAU2!
Still a few glitches (trim on takeoff, landing bounce). Other than, Iā€™m having a blast.

Add simbrief import and moving maps (xbox) and Iā€™m a very happy camper. :slight_smile:

Are there plans to get this thing working as well? Thatā€™s the EFB I suppose?

I did a first flight today with the 787, never used it every before. The avionics are great, well done to MS/Asobo but especially the Working Title team.

However, I personally think there are still too many knobs that are inop in the cockpit. For me that takes away from the immersiveness I prefer. So hopefully these are things that will be added in the future, or by some mod.