Discussion + Poll: World Update IX: Italy (1.25.9.0)

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626

Hi Pieter2427,
It’s been 25 days since you wrote this and since then, I have just stopped flying and investigating CTD’s to play other games/sims. Now, a new and ‘much needed’ update has been rolled out. Since this event, I have been able to use ‘any and all’ of my Orbx products in my Community folder, but not even one add-on in there before this update worked without a CTD when loading a flight, or shortly after panning around the aircraft.

I am back to city to city IFR flights and using all payware. The liveries on Orbx are still causing CTD’s so just bought one of FSMarket and that works fine.

I have a purpose built Republic of Gamers i9 RTX 3080 rig and this simulator has never let me down like it has recently. So I respectfully reject your ‘99 out of 100’ users theory.

Blue Sky’s

627

Pieter was wrong. Most MSFS2020 CTD are caused by the sim itself, as evidenced by the number of people getting regular CTD with the vanilla sim on xbox which is a controlled platform. It’s buggy and Asobo needs to fix it.

Which doesn’t mean there are not other hardware etc related causes, but it’s clear the sim itself is the major cause.

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628

Also evidenced by the change notes for an update often saying things like “Source of crash to desktop fixed……”

In fact, WU10 had one of these, despite it not being a SU.

If it were just peoples instances of MSFS, Asobo wouldn’t be finding issues with things like the map screen, or issue when the sim goes offline, and fixing them.

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629

That is fine. I know the numbers helping people on the forum and discord every single day since alpha. You can reject it, but your n=1 experience doesn’t make it invalid.

Point in case.

630

Helping players that can’t find the ‘any-key’ will always be needed, but you need to listen to to those that are equal too, or much more experienced than yourself mate.
And on that note, I’m out of this thread.

Blue Sky’s and watch out for the lawn darts.

631

Deleted, Wrong thread

632

I’m not saying the sim is without its problems. That’s why it isn’t 100% percent of the times a user’s fault.

We do solve a lot of complex issues which can take a huge amount of finding out and questioning the user. In the end it’s almost always a weird hardware config or old mod.

They do indeed find ctd causes, but that often is caused in combination with other software (like certain virus scanners or other tools) which are then accounted for.

But, in general the sim is very stable and the majority of millions of players are happily flying. Then there’s a part of the player base with problems. From this part, the vast majority is a system configuration of mod related issue. There’s only a very small amount of people who are experiencing CTDs because of an actual software bug. I’m not saying it never happens. I’m saying it’s rare.

That has nothing to do with dismissing certain people’s voices.

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635

Please point out where I said it was specifically your fault.

And please stop stating false facts that negative feedback will be “banned”? (what do you even mean with that?) Have one look at the forum and you know all negative feedback is allowed here. What’s not allowed is headless ranting.

And let’s not start about our jobs, shall we?

They do install a lot from the marketplace, which can also be the cause. I can repeat my whole post saying " I’m not saying it never happens. I’m saying it’s rare." but apparently it won’t make a difference.

636

Define “rare”. Is it 1 in 1000 simmers, 1 in 1000 flight hours? How is this number trending over time, across updates?

Please share crash statistics, eg. is it mostly the same users (eg. 2%) crashing over and over, or is it evenly distributed, with an expected crash once every 100 flight hours or something? What’s the delta between vanilla users and those with mods?

Without info like this saying words like “rare” have no meaning.

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637

Sim stability is still an issue. The problem is the crashes that I sometimes get are entirely random. There is zero chance of me ever being able to make a change, and make the determination that the issue has been resolved, as the crashes are not replicable.

The only crashes that I have found are repeatable are terrain issues, where you fly over a specific location, and the sim keels over.

I have long given up on the idea of checking through my community addons to find the culprit, as it’s next to pointless.

Pointless because what conditions do you set that you can determine the issue is fixed? One flight? Ten?

Again with few exceptions, like if the sim crashes when an fight isn’t even loaded. I had one case where if I had the BBS Islander loaded, the sim would crash if I tried to download some Carenado planes. That one was easy to find.

What Asobo need to do is find out why their sim is causing these 0xC0000005 errors where the sim is accessing memory it shouldn’t. My addons aren’t doing that, the sim is.

However an addon is written, the sim shouldn’t be taken down so easily.

I would also add I don’t have a single other piece of software, game or otherwise, that crashes with that error code. In fact I not think I have any that crash full stop.

I also count myself among those that, perhaps naively, thought the XBox version would help us with these crashes. It’s certainly better than it was, but far from perfect.

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638

Sorry but that is laughable to say the least. The sim can crash at random for no reason that can be identified let alone repeated. I can load up a flight, it crashes. I re-start the sim, load up the exact same flight and it runs perfectly ok. Nothing changed between these two flights hardware wise, driver wise or peripheral wise. Very stable it most certainly is not.

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639

That is essentially what many of us deal with, however sporadically. Something that crashes seemingly randomly can be fiendishly difficult to diagnose. If you can’t point to a thing, and declare categorically that it was the cause, you cannot say for certain that removing that thing has fixed it. You might fly for a month then suddenly get a crash, and you are back to square one.

Early on last year, I did two things that improved stability, but it was entirely on guesswork.

The first was to entirely disable rolling cache. The advice after installing patches was to clear the cache down, with the theory being that cached terrain might clash with updated streamed terrain, and cause instability. So rather than faff around with that all the time I turned it off.

The other was to related to the 530, and 750 addons. Back then I was flying with the JF Arrow a a lot, which was the only plane at the time you could dynamically change cockpit layout from no GPS to having either of those addons. It became apparent that there were some issues with those addons with relation to airspace notifications, as well as the number of map pages you could have, and the advice was to not flip between two GPS’s. IIRC without state saving, you had to flip from one to get to the other. So I decided that if I was going to fly the Arrow I would only have the addon I intend to use linked, and I would flip between them external to the sim before I load it.

Those two changes made a huge difference, as I was crashing a lot back then, and I maintain that stance today, even though I haven’t flown the Arrow in 6 months or more.

I also had an incident where I believe LNM, and its flight tracking was causing crashes. I switched to only using LNM for flight planning, not tracking, and stability was again restored. I went through a period of about a month with no crashes, and on the one occasion I turned flight tracking on, and forgot to turn it off, when I was circling the airport during a big group flight, the sim crashed. Was it LNM? Who knows, but it looked like it.

I don’t use any external flight tracking now, and still occasionally I get a crash. It’s rare, but enough to be an annoyance as it’s almost always at the end of the flight as I am getting ready to land.

640

Folks, just a reminder to stay on-topic and resort from going back and fourth.

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641

100% agreed

ALMOST EVERY single session for me ends with a CTD.
It can take 15 minutes, it can take 45. It doesn’t matter the scenario, it’s completely random.
Kinda not fun.

642

In this context that could be a good thing, as you are kind of in the opposite position to me, and might have more to work with.

If you crash almost all the time, then that could be an easy one to diagnose. First of all fly with no Community addons whatsoever for a few flights, and see how it goes. If those crashes have gone away, apply only half of the addons you had in place, and repeat. Then repeat for the other half.

This would only work well if you really do get a crash on virtually every flight, otherwise its just seemingly random, as is my case.

My last case, I flew for an 1:15, and had a crash at the end. I reloaded the sim, to take off from the airport I had crashed at, and flew for another 2:20, and no crashes. The difference? Who knows, but I can say I did not interact with ATC for that entire 2 hour plus flight.

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644

I tried them all.

Updated bios, updated drivers, updated os, community folder on, off, fresh install, fresh OS install

It’s completely random. There’s no pattern whatsoever.

I can repeat the same flight 20 times with no changes, it will go well for 2 times, then CTD a couple of times, then all good for other 3, then on and off, then CTD again, etc etc.

645

I agree that ranting is counterproductive. But saying it’s ‘rare’ is grossly inaccurate. One look at the Xbox forums on here should tell you the problems are most certainly not ‘rare’.

And I agree with others saying that whilst you can trace a large proportion of PC issues to hardware/software clashes etc, you cannot use this as a reason for a closed system like a console.

I have owned the sim on both platforms, on both the Series S and X and the Xbox version is very much the definition of ‘unstable’.

I think all people want is some acknowledgement that there is indeed an issue or issues within the sim itself, and that work is being done to identify the problems. Saying essentially that it must be the user’s doing etc, when the evidence is there to the contrary, is extremely poor, and shortsighted, in my view.

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646

I agree with you that not acknowledging issues with the sim is really not the best way to go. In my experience this approach only serves to inflame a situation, creates even more frustration and discontent and the underlying issues never get sorted.

There are clearly performance/CTD issues with the sim for some Xbox and PC users alike which have potentially arisen since SU 9. Maybe even before.

Denial and a refusal to accept this and not look for solutions will only make matters worse.

We and Asobo all need to openly acknowledge issues and look for ways to sort out those issues. Then hopefully we can eventually all move forward and enjoy a much improved sim which I am guessing is what most of us really want.

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647

They have confirmed it. That’s why they initiated a beta test program for xbox to search for CTD reasons.

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648

So this is confirmation, it would appear, that there is a genuine sim CTD issue which is not necessarily down to users as has been previously suggested :slightly_smiling_face:

I am guessing also that Asobo would not be conducting detailed beta testing if they thought that only a few users were affected too :slightly_smiling_face:

I have no problems with bugs in software as long as they are eventually sorted out. These things happen especially in complex software and it is very understandable.

I do, however, have concerns when there is an apparent lack of transparency and issues are ‘swept under the carpet’.