Elevator Trim is Broken

I thought I’d start an upvote thread for the elevator trim issue. It’s hard to believe that even today, on 09.15.20, there is no mention of this as an issue - let alone as a fix on the roadmap - in the dev update.

(I have created a zendesk ticket for this issue with lots of documentation, and the zendesk ticket has been closed, so Microsoft knows about it.)

The issues:

  • The elevator trim is too sensitive; moving the trim even 2% creates huge pitch changes
  • The elevator trim is (randomly?) bound to multiple keystrokes and joystick buttons / axis, and sometimes even the mousewheel or button
  • The AP cannot hold an accurate vertical speed or altitude
  • This issue doesn’t seem to happen in every install; unsure what “system demographic” it falls into

Possible workarounds:

  • Deleting all bindings from all devices, and then re-binding seems to help a bit
  • Making a change in the flight_model.cfg seems to help a little

Caveats to the workarounds:
No matter what we do, a 1% or 2% change in elevator trim still induces way too much of a pitch change. 2% movement should barely change the pitch, not violently pitch the aircraft by 10 degrees or more.

So let’s upvote this issue and get Microsoft’s attention!

Here’s an extensive list of threads on this subject, so you know it’s a real thing:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/just-breath-on-the-trim-and-bam/253721/21
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/elevator-trim-out-of-control/146764/21

I’m spending most of my time in the Shock Ultra. The trim was difficult with the TM HOTAS X, but it’s fine with the TM Warthog.

So it can be controller-dependent. But it should be more configurable and match the aircraft system, aerodynamic, and performance envelope of the actual aircraft, within the limitations of a desktop program and the variety of controllers we use.

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Issue #1 is the only one of these I’ve encountered. I did encounter issues unbinding some keys previously, but it’s easy to spot them in the settings.

I really do wish the trim buttons would be less sensitive, though. I find it very difficult to get a level aircraft in MSFS without using the autopilot (or the A320 fly by wire system).

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Since there are lots of variables in this, wanted to ask if you are experiencing issues to focus on 1 aspect and provide specifics. Controller input issues are mostly separate from autopilot issues.

In order to help developers and troubleshooting, will need specific details on what exact controllers are being used, what aircraft it is noticed in, what bindings are set to, etc. I haven’t had any issues, other than I feel the autopilot needs to do a better job at correcting out of trim situations. (And trim should run at 1 speed, not high speed after holding for several seconds) I know some joystick driver utilities can cause issues. For example, if you make an axis a “slider” that shouldn’t be (such as elevator control). Or binding something that should be an axis to a keyboard command.

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Thanks @JuiceBox7535, I agree! I know I’ve personally submitted a (hopefully detailed enough) ticket, and hopefully everybody else with one of these issues will do the same.

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Sure, thanks for helping tackle some of these bugs! Looking forward to future patch improvements.

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It’s the least I can do for a sim that I’ve loved since the late '80s. :slight_smile: I wasn’t picked for any of the alpha or beta test programs, where I would have posted lots of bugs; but now that I’m part of the teething pains in the v1 release version, I’m happy to somehow help if I can!

Additional related thread here - issue with Honeycomb Yoke and other controllers where some buttons send a continuous “on” signal to the sim that seems to impact trim, throttle and other controls

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I did not see Trim mentioned in the patch notes of the patch that just dropped :frowning:

Yeah, I don’t either, but I guess I didn’t expect to since we just barely started up-voting it. Hopefully it’ll get more attention over the next month and get enough votes to add it to the next patch.

Only one point in the patch notes:
Zlin Shock Ultra : trim management improvements

Yep. That is SO much better.

EXACTLY – Finally the real issue is getting homed in on.

PROOF:

Take a simple GA plane, like the C172
Get it up flying WITHOUT AP being on, in level flight.
(You may well need to temporarily use the AP to achieve this)

OK, so now you are in level flight, Throttle set , flaps up, stable speed … and VS is at ZERO, and hopefully staying there,

ie Plane is now trimmed for level flight at your given air speed.

Now just move the Trim wheel the smallest amount you can, literally a few mm.
Depending on the direction you move the Trim, plane will start climbing or descending at an alarming rate

Try to manually trim the plane again… you will find you need to move the trim wheel within 1-2 mm to get it to the one point where you are trimmed again for your given stable airspeed.

ie The TRIM is WAY WAY WAY to sensitive. resulting in a total lack of pitch stability.

If you are close to trimmed, the if you turn the AP on, it is eventually able to trim the plane to a stable attitude, but there is massive oscillation to get there.
It’s NOT the AP’s fault, just like it is not YOUR fault that it is so difficult to trim the plane.

It’s because the Trim is FAR to sensitive.

And now that the Released Version has all these [FLIGHT_TUNING] parameters in an ENCRYPTED file now, there is nothing you can do, but wait for ASOBO to fix the issue.

or make your own Plane , like the C152X

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Doesn’t do that here. Trim works as advertised. Perhaps it depends on your controller. If I click the trim button, it makes a tiny trim change. If I hold it, after about a second, it runs the trim. So I just make lots of little clicks.

Are you using a honeycomb yoke? There is an issue with the magneto switch sending continuous signals to the sim that messes up trim and also the issue where the heating bug can only be moved in increments of 10 degrees. I will try to find the post that explains this.

This trim issue has been raised in many threads, so they should be consolidated. Search for trim in the bus and also the wishlist categories.

It’s not a controller issue :wink:

YES … the 3D Modeling works fine – looks very pretty, but the Aerodynamic effect of the trim is way too high,

Who’s talking about the animation? The aerodynamic response here is fine.

Glad to hear it :slight_smile: but did actually did describe how the Animation was working nicely.
But if you are happy, I am happy for you too.

ie

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My trim sensitivity is fine. Even after the last patch I still get sudden full trim up when advancing to 100% power, this can happen during take off or flight or just when adjusting AP settings. It is very random maybe once every 10 flights and can happen in any plane. I view it as a reminder anything can happen or fail!!

Sorry - missed that!