Force feedback support

Yep, if you are in a steep but co-ordinated turn the motion platform should be level. In theory with a 60 degree bank you ought to be feeling about 2 G acting downwards but no practical motion platform is going to be able to simulate that more than momentarily, and definitely not throughout a sustained 60 degree turn.

I interpreted this as needing the data from the flight model / aerodynamics as input for the force feedback.

1 Like

here is the link to the latest Q$A video on Youtube.

1h17’20" about FFB answer

To all, bring the link of this forum post to any other sim forum you are a suscriber, WE NEED MORE VOTE !

WE NEED TO BE PLENTY !

Also, bring here any link tpointing to recent devices use in sim which are FFB, lets make Martial wrong !

Other sim are FFB, NOT MSFS !? WHY ?

But you can fake it some by making you sink in the seat.

In any case, have a look at:
Latest ms-force-feedback-2 topics - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

Quite some but unfortunately, this FFB2 question and the Q&A answers might just indicate this is an XBox game first and foremost build around a market place, and the PC version is just a by-product of the same code running on both platforms. Any device which will be supported in the XBox version is supported in the PC version and only those, because there is no DirectInput in XBox SDK.

Even the game menus and UI are so much XBox like and are not using the mouse pointer convenience to its fullest (anyone feeling better using the mouse wheel to change a slider instead of having to grab the small dot?).

And what about the question about DLSS (and the Q&A answer). It turns out if there is no DLSS in XBox/AMD/DX12U then no, their will not be DLSS support in FS2020 even if 85% of simmers are running on NVidia hardware (maybe not all on RTX though but nevertheless, quite a sizeable chunk of NVidia hardware with specific optimizations possible just for them).

I just wish their answers in the next Q&A are proving all this wrong with good news about things specific to the PC version which can’t be done on the XBox version for example, like the FFB2 support.

PS: no this is not a rant, I’m fine with FS2020 as it is, but I find a discordance sometimes between the PR materials and the implementation questioning the whole direction this simulator/game is really going both for the end user and for the 3rd party devs, which begs some questions.

1 Like

For me FFB is not only on the yoke or the joystick, FFB is for running my MOTION SIM, as other flight “game” do it.

I agree, MSFS2020 is more for XBOX than PC gamer, BUMMER !

2 Likes

Maybe we need to push for XBOX to get FFB :smiley:

BTW with currently 250 odd votes we are only 100 off making the shortlist published with the updates.

Vote if you have not already.

1 Like

Just voted.
Didn’t know how but looked at the top Post
and saw the “Vote Box”.

In the recent Q&A, they said one of the reasons why FFB is currently absent/low priority is due to the absence of the FFB hardware from the main-stream peripheral maker. True. And it is also true that the majority of the simmers don’t realize why the FFB is a must, perhaps because they never flew a real one, maybe they only play (FBW) airliners, maybe they are only casual users who care only about the switch-happiness. But I think if they really want to build a sim for enthusiasts as they said, Microsoft and Asobo could take the advantage of the popularity of this new platform to teach people the importance of the FFB, to expand the potential market and push the makers to rethink building new (hopefully, affordable) FFB hardware, instead of waiting for the never-gonna-happen miracle that all the sudden makers decide to make the FFB great again.

Yet I know the reality is cruel though, people are enjoying the decade(s) old absolutely obsolete garbage (yet somewhat overpriced) hardware quite well. Price probably is the main reason behind it. Some new peripheral maker doesn’t even want to use hall effect sensors perhaps because they are/were so afraid of the price rising. Even in china where the production costs are relatively low, a brand of small-batch manufactured FFB joystick base sells for about $1000 USD IIRC. I don’t know how big the scale of mass-production would have to be to alleviate the price concerns of the FFB, but maybe that’s the only way. I don’t know how they made it happen decades ago when FFB seems more accessible to people, and how they made it happen in the racing sim community. P3D and XPL have to support FFB since they are partially or entirely commercial-oriented software, but for MSFS2020, we can only pray…

2 Likes

It is a catch22.

People might start making decent FFB sticks again (maybe not for $100, but definitely at the Honeycomb Yoke sort of price point) once the game provides full FFB support.

However Asobo will not provide full FFB support until people start making decent FFB sticks again.

Chicken and egg stuff.

2 Likes

I don’t believe this at all for this reason:
Force feedback support - #107 by Steinways

And don’t forget the code base behind FS2020 is FSX which supports FFB. In addition FS2020 aircraft config files are carrying over the FSX FFB parameters.

In my developer opinion the only reason there is no FFB in FS2020 is because the Microsoft API meant to supporting FFB is DirectInput, which is not available in the Xbox SDK. Instead, there is XInput which FFB support is limited to rumbling with the XBox controller.

Why did they take out the FSX FFB code and didn’t keep it as-is then? Just because it is using a non-XBox API.

3 Likes

You could assume they are avoiding complaints from XBox users about how XBox is not getting the full PC experience by limiting PC users to whatever FFB the XBox can provide.

Which sounds like just a conspiracy theory, but hey you never know :wink:

I can’t speak for whether the DirectInput FFB is available in the XBox SDK but I don’t believe it’s accurate to say XBox only supports rumble effects. There are a number of racing simulators on consoles now and wheels that support FFB. Also…

And I agree because this is not what I’m saying. These Xbox controllers have nothing to do with DirectInput ForceFeedback nor with XInput butchered “force feedback meant for rumbling controllers” only either.

Do you have any experience developing an application supporting Joystick Force Feedback with XInput? If so please do share how you manage to do, I’ll learn something and this might help Asobo implementing FFB support for FS2020.

Heh, alright it seems I misunderstood what was being said.

I don’t have experience with developing FFB solutions but as I thought people were under the impression you couldn’t have physics forces from game code drive FFB systems that aren’t just rumble motors on console, it would be worth pointing out that it is possible as games and devices which do that exist and have done for some time.

What probably matters here is not what Xbox actually supports but what Asobo thinks manufacturers of Xbox peripherals are likely to support.

The fact that high end PC peripherals like Brunner yokes and pedals exist is not enough to bring FFB on to their radar. An Xbox FFB joystick for sale on Amazon certainly would.

1 Like

A simulator for simmers it is… I’m not certain I’ll trade my Brunner for a Xbox controller though :smiling_imp:

1 Like

The Xbox Controllers, Elite I and II controllers, have FFB out of the box. But unfortunately, it is only for on the ground taxiing and stalling. I have not felt any FFB for turbulence in the air at all. So it would be very nice if the Xbox controllers would also have FFB for in air turbulence.

I also contacted XPForce support to see if they add in air turbulence to the Xbox controller. But they indicated that they don’t support the Xbox controller at all…just an FYI to everyone.

i imagine the yoke/controls for it might be expensive

Well true but a lot of people will pay it.

Ignoring a feature because some users will either not have the funds or cannot justify the expense would be silly. If you followed that logic VR or multiple screens or even just a set of rudder pedals would not be supported either.

In the end though, it an Asobo decision, all we can do is encourage people upvote this thread so it gets on their radar.