with stock traffic, you only see contrails if you are around 30,000. One of these traffic add ons cause you to see traffic contrails even if you are on the ground.
Yep that must be it. I only fly low 99% of the time and only started noticing the contrails above when I tried FSLTL.
I was hoping I could see those contrails without the bloat of the FSLTL models.
Do you mean contrails on other traffic when they are on the ground, or am I misunderstanding something?
I mean:
With the default live traffic, you see YOUR and OTHER planeâs contrails once you reach somewhere around 30,000 ft altitude.
With FSLTL-TRAFFIC-BASE loaded via Add Ons Linker you see contrails from OTHER planes regardless of YOUR altitude. In other words, you can be at FL10 or on the ground and see the contrails overhead from an A320 or a 747, etc. at FL32.
I think this only works because of FSLTL, but was hoping there was another way to avoid loading all those models, but I guess not.
Are you saying without FSLTL you do not see contrails from others unless you are above a certain altitude? That actually sounds like a bug in the default traffic to me. If Iâm sitting on the ground, I would expect to see contrails from overhead traffic just like IRL.
I get not wanting to rely on FSLTL or other mod just to get that visual, though.
Yes, that is what I am sayingâŠabout 3 different ways I said it. It has been that way since they introduced contrails many SUâs ago.
If you see them and you are below ~30,000, please tell me how you do it. That was my original question.
I use FSLTL and have so long that I donât recall how it worked out without it. So I guess either keep using it or make a bug report for default traffic.
As someone about to cross over from Xbox Series X to PC, Iâm curious as to how the AI traffic landscape lies in early 2024âŠ
JFâs FS Traffic has recently hit the in-sim Markeplace, which makes me think itâs had some kind of recent update?
Iâm not too concerned about fps performance as Iâve plumped for a high-end PC. General realism is perhaps more important â I note that FS Traffic has full compatibility with default and third-party jetways, but am unsure if FSLTL does too? Bit of a deal-breaker it it doesnât as airliners sat around on stand, not connected to jetways, is a pet hate of mine.
As I understand, FSLTL is based on live traffic (as seen on FR24) but can encounter problems when the time is changed? FS Traffic is based on real-world schedules but NOT traffic as itâs happening? Any other crucial differences to help a PC newbie make a decision? I guess I could of course download FSLTL for free and see if it does the job, but my curiosity re FST will always get the better of me!
Finally, whatâs AIG? Is this a standalone product that competes with FSLTL and FST, or something different?
Thanks.
FSLTL works fine with jetways and is probably the most realistic given itâs live traffic. It works with time slew but it gives you current live traffic, so if you fly somewhere that is in the middle of the night IRL then itâs not going to look the same as if it was genuinely daytime.
FSLTL is free, easy to use, and the preferred option for many. Just try it when you get your PC and see how you get on.
As to the FPS, even with your PC it wonât be long before you are FPS chasing like the rest of us! The way MSFS 2020 handles live traffic certainly impacts performance and so youâll need to make compromises.
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Sad but true. Even a weather prediction mainframe supercomputer wonât run this with all you want smoothly 
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Depending upon many factors, including where you are flying, I find FSLTL extracts a 5-10+ FPS hit. Adjust settings accordinglyâŠ
The consensus appears to be that JFâs flight models offer better fps. Might be worth using FSLTL as the injector but FST for the aircraft.
Still not sure what AIG isâŠ
AIG is an earlier freeware traffic solution, which I think is also schedule based. It used to be tricky to install but is much easier now. Mega thread here:
Give it a go and compare it yourself to FSLTL. Some people do use FSLTL with models from other addons so you can try that too.
FST just went on sale with a pretty hefty discount.
If I want to use FST models in FSLTL, is it as simple as selecting to prioritise FST models in the MS-DOS-like options window on start-up?
I got FT. Couldnât resist it with the dicsount!
My initial observations, vs. FSLTLâŠ
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Definitely better fps performance with FST, even with more aircraft populating airports.
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FST aircraft models are generally slightly less detailed (most obvious with the 737NGs and ATRs), which is likely the reason for point 1.
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FST offers a better variety of types. Within the first couple of minutes I saw two types that are missing from FSLTL, and I know there are at least 4-5 more.
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AI behaviour seems worse in FST. At LEBL just now, they were using 06L for departures but 23L for arrivals! I also saw, at LEMG, aircraft âarrivingâ already on the ground, way short of the runway. Whether they were ever airborne is anyoneâs guess but they seemed to spawn already on the ground a half-mile or so from the threshold. Iâve seen neither phenomenon in my three weeks with FSLTL.
I donât feel Iâve wasted my money as the two products can be used concurrently. I know I can certainly use FSLTL as the injector but replace all its models with the framerate-friendlier FST examples; however Iâm not sure if I can use FST as some sort of gap-filler, whereby it only inserts types missing from FSLTL?
I have a medium system that gives me ~35fps on high at 1080p. I found the AI traffic on the sim to be a whole hog whereby FSLTL is practically imperceptible. I use whatever the default values are.
One fuss. I frequently get ârun overâ by AI traffic taxiing on the ground as well as in the air on approach. I had ATC this morning tell me to hold short for the plane on the runway. A plane taxied up behind me, ran me over and took off down the runway. That was the traffic I was holding for 
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I took the plunge and got FST, just for models and this is the experience so far
- I am seeing aircraft and liveries that I didnât see earlier
- With just FSLTL, any more than 30 parked aircraft would introduce stutters and at large airports like FlyTampa EHAM, it felt just odd with majority of gates empty.
- Early, perceived performance improvements encouraged me to tweak that FSLTL injector setting and I got 56 parked aircraft with minimal performance hit - airport now felt a lot more realistic.
- I am getting default Asobo models in some cases though which I need to investigate (maybe something like an a340 which neither FST or FSLTL have and sim injected default a380)
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Are you using FSLTL as the injector still? If so, you might have default models and blank liveries enabled. You need to turn them off, otherwise FSLTL will use an Asobo model or an all-white livery for aircraft it cannot match to FR24.
If youâve already turned those off, it will be an AI traffic setting still on in your MSFS options or flight setup menu.
Iâm currently using FSLTL with FST models taking priority (gives the best of both worlds as FST is poor for cargo) and I do not see generic models or white liveries.
I am using FSLTL injector with blank liveries disabled. AI traffic is also turned off but I will double check, thanks!