Fussing about MSFS-2024?

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42

Update:
It appears that more of my system is screwed up than meets the eye  (Thanks for hard-crashing my system MSFS-2024!)

  1. I tried uninstalling both 2024 and 2020, and then deleting the associated folders.  Now, neither one will install/run.

  2. System Restore is also borked.

  3. I am going to try a DISM and a /sfc /scannow to see if that helps. If not, I’ll have to try restoring a backup. :man_facepalming: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

Well, I’ve found a legitimate beef right off the bat.

If you (ahem!) “assume” that the respective game installers know what they’re doing, you are in for a rude awakening.

Apparently MSFS-2024 defaults its installation directory to the same place MSFS-2020 is installed.

The result is a crashed MSFS-2020 installation. . .

Balled-up 2020 installation
Balled-up 2020 installation377×167 9.57 KB

I suspect I will have to uninstall MSFS-2024, uninstall 2020 as best I can, wipe all traces of them from my system, and re-install both of these beasties from scratch.

Oh goody!  I am so on-board with this nonsense. . .

installer_no_brain_large
installer_no_brain_large762×521 82.6 KB

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43

One comment that I hope puts things in perspective:

  1. I am absolutely not excusing the state of the game on release.  It was an early beta that should have been marketed as an early beta

  2. However, we were told repeatedly that MSFS2024 was primarily a refactor of the ancient and difficult to fix code from FSX that 2020 inherited.

How many of you were involved in a code refactor project of any complexity whatsoever?  Come now, let’s see a show of hands.

I’ve been involved in several code refactoring projects and they’ve all been royal balls-ups from day one and had more bugs than a bait-shop.

I’ve tried refactoring my own coding projects and it was the fastest boat to a trashed project I’ve ever seen.

Translation:  When I hear “refactoring”, I instinctively duck!

Yes, the current state of the sim is inexcusable, especially when they promised so much.

However, before we dump on them too much, we need to “walk a mile in their shoes” to understand what they’re really up against.

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44

But they gave the impression they had mastered the refactoring. This was my premise, not that they are still in the process.

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45

i think they also overbloated the thing, adding myriads of features and a/c, and now they are at a loss as to where to start fixing this labyrinth they themselves have created and its difficult to fix one thing without breaking another
too many meetings with a lot of big talk, little proper planning, testing and methodical approach

46

One can only hope they are able to tame the beast so we can ride it then.

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47

I highly recommend you take up a side career as an author. I find your writing hilarious. Thank you for your perspective and knowledge, I imagine you have several books worth of material just in your software development/ QA experience. I hope Asobo calls you up for advice and consulting!

48

Anyone know a publisher that wants irreverent short prose?

I doubt it.  One of my greatest strengths and one of my biggest problems is my extreme allergy to BS and the fact that I don’t suffer fools.

I can be patient as a saint with honest tries that don’t work or honest mistakes, but arrogant BS is one of my big red buttons labeled “Don’t Push Me!”  Marketing types that have a tenuous grasp of reality - especially with project timelines - are one of my favorite targets.

Before I retired, one of the things I would tell a prospective client during an interview was that “I might not tell you what you want to hear, but I will absolutely tell you what you need to know” and that often earned me a handshake and a “We’ll get back to you”.  It’s a great way to filter out the jobs I don’t want right at the very beginning!
 

One of my favorite sayings was on a calendar a few decades ago: “Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement!”

Anecdote:

At a SQA assignment this one company had a four-tiered severity scale for bugs ranging from Sev-1 (“Yes Mr. Cosby, we are crashing at this time.”), to Sev-4 (“Please explain why you’re wasting my time with this?”).

I proposed a new tier - Sev-5 - for bugs that, (though possibly quite minor and don’t affect the operation of the software), makes the company and its development team look like absolute idiots.  Things like “misspelling the company’s name” or “inserting the corporate logo backwards/upside-down”, or other things that were obviously careless mistakes that even Stevie Wonder could have seen.

Yep.  Right to the top of the popularity ladder with that one!
:man_facepalming:

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49

As others said, both. Depending on your use case.

I found VFR in free flight to be much better in 2024 than 2020, visuals are beautiful, I see grass and tree branches moving in the rotor downwash, oil rigs are stunning, many small airports are very well made (and then they put a static business jet on a local glider club airfield, but I can live with that). No complaints about frame rates, even in VR it is ok. No idea how IFR works, haven’t tried if ATC still sends you below ground level like in 2020…

However, if you are like me and were looking forward to all the activities you saw in the trailer (helicopter missions like sling load, AG, SAR), then you are in for a big disappointment.

First, all this is locked behind the career mode, which, in my opinion, does not make sense, and missions should be open, should also be open to third party developers to create new missions as Asobo is clearly unable to do so.

And then you say, ok, screw them, let’s grind through those boring “missions”, listening to those repeating, idiotic chats, then the real torture begins.

Career mode is a buggy mess, and if you read these forums, you’ll get the impression, that career mode is not about making progress being a better aviator, performing the missions better, flying faster, safer, economical, no, 95% of the current career mode is trying to avoid the worst bugs to make any progress at all.

To me, 2024 would be just a 2020 with better visuals, but since I’m flying helicopters, it is not even that, as they managed to leave in the dreaded elevated platform bug they already fixed in 2020, and this, apart from being a glaring proof of their dysfunctional QA, killing most of the fun in helicopter flying.

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50

I haven’t even considered getting into career mode yet, mostly because of all the problems I’ve heard about it. Also, because I like Free Flight, and it bothers me as well that the cool missions aren’t avaiable as standalone flights. That was a terrible decision on Microsobo’s part, IMHO.

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The one thing that I don’t understand is why they mixed a refactoring project with major enhancements, knowing that any refactoring project of any complexity is a disaster waiting to happen without any extras?

As a matter of fact, I do understand.  I understand it very clearly and very painfully well.  It probably went like this:

Been there, done that, and I have an entire collection of the fancy designer-label T-shirts.

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52

I don’t know how you did your job without this functionality in your personality.

Should we make a list of these mistakes that MS/Asobo don’t seem to care about (i.e. UI-manufacturer DHC4 Caribou).

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53

Being the only one foolhardy enough to admit “but 'es got no clothes!” [Read with a heavy southeastern London accent] didn’t exactly make me a candidate for the companies “Mr. Congeniality” bonus.

Except for a few times:

Once I was given an aviation, (AFIS), project that was Borked Beyond All Recognitiontm and had been issued a 30-day termination letter from the FAA.

It was well and truly borked.

I was handed that fat plum of a project with the fervent prayer that I - somehow - could snatch it from the jaws of death.

When the FAA team came 30 days later, I looked 'em dead in the eye after giving them The Grand Tour and told 'em that I received this project 30 days ago, that it was a steaming pile when I received it, (and was still a steaming pile, just giving off less steam by the time the FAA came), what I did, what I had planned, and an approximate time-line.  I offered them two choices:

  1. Haul it away right now.
  2. Come back in another 30 days and see what progress has been made.

They picked door number two.

They smiled, shook hands, picked up their briefcases, and walked out promising to be back in 30 days.

After they left, my boss comes running outta’ his office, (the FAA typically chases management types into their offices unless they’re arresting someone), and yells “They left??  They gave us a 30 day extension?!!  What the [*****] did you tell them??”

“Boss, I told them the truth.”

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54

I like this story, it speaks to the human psyche. You told the truth and didn’t hide anything, and the result was “OK, it’s been worked on and you not hiding anything”.

The launch of FS2024 would have been a lot different if the devs stated “early access”, or “hey this is a great sim with tonnes of potential but we’re not quiet there yet”. At the end of the day, I think that Microsoft/Xbox bosses gave them a deadline, and they weren’t ready for it. As stated many times, there was no beta, and IMHO if there was the testers would have seen the truth. Yeah they had the open tech alpha, and the Grand Canyon day for the influencers, but those were very limited in scope.

IMHO I believe that 2024 when the majority of the issues are sorted (like it took 2020) then it will be a great sim and worth all the praises the devs gave it. But they should have been more truthful to the actual state of the sim before release.

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I had to deal with some pretty tough questions while they were there, and I don’t blame 'em at all.

Some I answered straight up, others I gave them the best answer I could not being in that particular e-mail chain, (:wink:), and others I told 'em flat out that “I didn’t know”.

One question that I had to face was “. . .and what happened to the previous project lead?” - a particularly thorny question not just because it was “company confidential” - I really didn’t have any hard facts.

My answer was that I really didn’t know what the actual facts of the matter were but, (according to what “the little birdies” were saying), that particular individual, (in recognition of his years of service and his skillful handling of this project up until then), was offered the opportunity to advance his career elsewhere.

That got the first smile and chuckle I’d ever seen from an FAA inspector.

Actually I got along fine with them whenever a project of mine was “chosen” to be the sacrificial plucked-duck when the FAA inspection team came in through the loading dock entrance.

My secret?

I showed them what they expected to see, made a point of knowing what I was expected to know, and never gave them the bull.

That’s what Laminar Research did with X-Plane 12.  They made no bones about it being early - in some cases very early - and people accepted that.

Things would be sooooo much easier if management types in general learned this lesson.

Start with the truth.  If you make a mistake, you own it, eat it, and don’t give people the bull about it.

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56

I think the ATC and windsock issues are related, something in the code that they share that determines the direction for both…

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57

You’re probably right but this was actually fixed for 2020 a good while back

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58

We’d need a whole other forum server for the list. . .

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59

The windsock issue is most likely a definition of simobject issue, a lack of communication of changes that likely made it’s way back to the code when other changes were made, or something along those lines, maybe a change to the code and an “I’ll get to that later… oops, I forgot” or a “but now with this change we can’t just make one object arbitrarily different” issue.

Essentially, the simobjects default to 180 degrees (for some who knows why reason), so, Windsocks always pointed to the opposite direction they should (Maybe the original developer didn’t know how windsocks work?), because, rather than make it variable to the wind no matter what direction the object is pointing, they chose to hard code it as an angle to 0 degrees, so, they always ended up being opposite the way the were supposed to.

I think they made a new object to fix the problem way back, and propagated it through the airports. Maybe they made yet another new object, and forgot the change… who knows? In any event, I don’t know nor do I think it’s related to ATC. In the past it was just a simobject definition/coding issue for the windsocks.

They keep telling us the ATC issue is fixed… :person_shrugging:

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I ran into something like that awhile back.

I was testing some software with an annoying bug that the devs were insisting was fixed, and they were getting increasingly peeved because I kept saying it was still broken.

Finally, a dev came barging into my office wanting to know what file cabinet I’d locked my brains in and I invited him to try it on my system.

Oops!

He left much more red-faced than when he’d arrived. . .

Turns out that he forgot to merge the fix with the latest build image!
:man_facepalming:

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