Is this Sim ever going to be made more Fighter Jet/Fast Jet friendly? I've had some real fun in fast jets, but they're very unreliable and buggy/unstable

[NotIdentity24]

@FndrStrat06

That is almost certainly a binding issue with your rudders or ailerons.

No i think its a full on bug, because the rate I spin when this happens, its not even possible, like I can make the f18 spin like 3-4 times in a second, it shouldn’t really even exceed probably once a second at max.

Yet if I go the other way, its locked out almost, can barely roll it at all. I check the control surfaces visually, and I can see they’re acting normally… that’s whats soo odd.

@FndrStrat06

This is how airplanes work. The wind can move planes all by itself, and control surfaces won’t show that.

I always fly with wind off, to make things as simple as possible. This is something else, it’s a severe bank, and what tells me it’s a bug, is that there’s plenty of times where this doesn’t happen, in fact months on end where this doesn’t happen, then… out of nowhere it starts doing it again.

@FndrStrat06

Crosswinds can do this too. The sim has long standing issues with ground-level wind intensity.

Wind was off again, always is, and in this case, I could visually inspect replay, and see that my control surfaces were indeed pushing me nose down. They were doing some kinda thing of there own.

You know how sometimes control surfaces move by themselves anyway? Just as part of the fbw system… that was just stuck pitching down and left for some reason.

@FndrStrat06

This is almost certainly a hardware issue, if it comes and goes at random.

Nope, my control surfaces would even move… they would just not do anything to the plane.

@FndrStrat06

Hardware issue.

Absolutely not, I literally hear them go up, it even says ‘‘gear up’’ when I do it, in the cockpit…

It just doesn’t put them up.

@FndrStrat06

Planes can stall at high speed, at high angles of attack. The chance of this increases if the CG is out of whack. Near the limit might as well be over the limit, for a lot of airframes.

Do you have other flight controllers to try instead of your normal hardware? Hell, if you’ve got an Xbox controller laying around, it should be pretty easy to test out what’s a pilot issue, and what’s a hardware issue. Honestly, sounds like a little of both.

This can happen in any circumstances and setup, and often happens in the times you’d never expect it to… just gently flying around without doing an awful lot, flying at 330kts.

@FndrStrat06

Do you have other flight controllers to try instead of your normal hardware? Hell, if you’ve got an Xbox controller laying around, it should be pretty easy to test out what’s a pilot issue, and what’s a hardware issue. Honestly, sounds like a little of both.

I’ve tested using a PS4 controller and it’s no different.

I’d bet 1000s that it was not a hardware issue, but a sim/mod/mod conflict issue, or just a major limitation of the sim’s flight model.

[BegottenPoet228]

OP, have you tried testing one of the problematic aircraft - like the Hawk - with an otherwise empty Community folder? Conflicts between mods are not unheard of.

[NotIdentity24]

I don’t fuss around with hardware, just keyboard and mouse for me, I’ve always been that way, don’t like using joysticks and all that, or pedals, although sadly because of how the keyboard works, you can only rudder incrementally and it’s not fun to do, and is very hard, I tend to try and avoid rudder if I can.

[NotIdentity24]

If it were just the hawk I was having issues with i’d try that, but I’m having issues with nearly every plane really.

And I don’t have the time to try each one individually.

I think it could have made a difference, because sometimes I reinstall fs2020 and sometimes I end up clearing the folder anyway, which might be why my problems sometimes come and go or swap around (like one problem goes, another one comes, like a game of whackamole)

I don’t really fancy having to clear out my com folder every time I want to fly a plane.

[BegottenPoet228]

I always recommend Addons_Linker. It’s free, and makes controlling the contents of my Community folder super easy. I can load a preset with one plane and one airport, a preset with a dozen planes sorted by type, along with every scenery mod I own, or a completely empty preset. Each preset creates symbolic links in Community, so there’s never actually any content in that folder - other than those few mods that are forced into a Community install (few and far between.)

[FndrStrat06]

@NotIdentity24

I don’t fuss around with hardware, just keyboard and mouse for me,

I’ll be honest, this alone is probably 90% of your problem. Playing KB&M is an option, but definitely the worst one. You’re also trying to fly some of the hardest aircraft to fly with KB&M. You’re trying to control multiple analog axes with digital inputs. That’s… not ideal.

Seriously, get a cheapo Xbox One controller and a wireless adapter. Even that’s not ideal, but having analog inputs for analog axes is what you need. I can’t stress that enough.

[Smidge1106]

@FndrStrat06

I’ll be honest, this alone is probably 90% of your problem. Playing KB&M is an option, but definitely the worst one.

I agree this could be a major issue. When I first tried P3D, I flew with a mouse and keyboard until I knew I wanted to invest in controllers.

Flying anything fast or highly maneuverable was very hard. It is hard to make small movements and I’d end up over correcting and sometimes go out of control. And I never tried anything as fast as a fighter jet.

[NotIdentity24]

It’s not analog though.

A joystick is essentially a super advanced mouse, with some curves applied and deadzones and all that.

There’s only two axes linked to my mouse, so I can pitch up and down, and bank left and right. I use keyboard for rudder.

It’s not that complicated.

I’ve tried using a joystick and found it way harder, and yes I understand it takes some time to adjust your muscle memory, but I could tell it wasn’t my thing very quickly. I’m very good with my mouse because I’ve played soo many fps games, and so I just stuck to it, I’ve managed some pretty amazing things with it.

Even real pilots playing flight sim I’ve not seen do as good as I can do sometimes.

As in, I have more precision in doing different maneuvers.

I’ve even used a PS4 controller, which was pretty rough.

[zooze74]

As the previous thread was closed, reposting this on this thread. Okay as you say the physics is broken and your broke the flight model I thought I’d test this, and as you can see it isn’t broken. When you download third party planes these can break the flight model as some of this is set by the plane configuration, and if done badly things can go very badly.

My video below for a laugh, now I never said I could fly but tried my best to break it. This is the F18 apologise the video is labelled wrong.

@NotIdentity24 quick question, based on my video below, how does this perform on your system? do you still have issues with this plane?

F16A Flight Model

Zooze74

[BeardyBrun]

@NotIdentity24

Even real pilots playing flight sim I’ve not seen do as good as I can do sometimes.

As in, I have more precision in doing different maneuvers.

In one of your other threads you complained about having problems flying loops because the HUD (which you didn’t even know the name of) is confusing.

Yet here you claim to have skills beyond those of actual pilots.

[Jigsaw407]

There is definitely something wonky going on with the Just Flight Hawk. I just tried a short flight in chase cam and with the HUD just like NotIdentity24 and I could replicate spinning out of control in the same weird way. This was done with the Thrustmaster Airbus Flightstick. Not a mouse.

Flight Model Oddity with the Just Flight Hawk T1

BUT … In my case it was caused by doing extreme maneuvering that are unsafe. Remember: you can stall at any speed! If the angle of attack on the wing get’s too steep at too high speeds, the airflow separates and you lose control. Just because you fly a fast jet you can’t just throw it around willy nilly. You still need adhere to the flight envelope that it was designed for. If you exceed it, you pay the price.

I never saw this behavior until now … but I usually don’t fly the Hawk like that, because I don’t like my brain sliding into my boots or out of my eye sockets.

[CharlieFox00]

I’ve watched your video a couple times. Right before you departed controlled flight, your stabilator suddenly went to full nose down, but you also had a lot of aileron input simultaneously.

It looks like the negative Gs induced by the sudden, roll coupled maneuver got you into a negative-G accelerated stall and subsequently developed into a series of incipient inverted spins. During those, the rudder was all over the place and got you into secondary stalls and incipient spins.

I submit that this was all due to sudden, improper control inputs that exceeded the limitations of the flight model.

[FndrStrat06]

Ignoring the fact that you’re using a mouse for ailerons and elevator, you’re using a digital input (keyboard) to control an analog axis (rudder). You just can’t do this an expect anything close to realism from any aircraft, let alone extremely agile jet fighters.

@NotIdentity24

Even real pilots playing flight sim I’ve not seen do as good as I can do sometimes.

I don’t think we can help you, if this is your opinion of yourself. You are free to play however you like, of course, but there is ZERO chance you are as good as you think you are, using the setup you have. I’m sorry. Even an expensive Virpil hotas like mine doesn’t allow me to get anywhere near the skill level of a real air show pilot. Nothing can, aside from thousands of hours of real flight time.

[CharlieFox00]

Same thing here - yes, there may be an overabundance of yaw coming from the rudder, but I also see your elevator deflected almost fully nose up at the same time it departed controlled flight. Sudden, aggressively roll-coupled maneuvers aren’t going to be nice. But I also wonder if the tail isn’t exacerbating it a bit, into a full skid.

[MagicManASK]

Fact: it’s not the sim

[BegottenPoet228]

@NotIdentity24

It’s not analog though.

A joystick has two potentiometers to read user’s input. One potentiometer is used to get the analog output voltage for X-Direction movement and the other potentiometer is used to get the analog output voltage for Y-Direction movement.

[PacyFire]

@NotIdentity24

Even real pilots playing flight sim I’ve not seen do as good as I can do sometimes.
As in, I have more precision in doing different maneuvers.

Those real pilots must be fuming considering the feats you are accomplishing flying planes with just a mouse and keyboard!

[FndrStrat06]

Joysticks are also usually spring loaded to provide resistance and feedback. They offer much more precise control than a mouse ever can. Precision is key for flying agile planes smoothly without spinning out of control.

All of the odd behavior you’re seeing stems from not being able to precisely manipulate multiple control surfaces simultaneously.

[BegottenPoet228]

Not to mention the precision that comes with the added angular throw of a joystick vs. a mouse. One could cite the F-16 sidestick controller as an exception, but that uses pressure, not movement to control the flight surfaces.

[PacyFire]

There’s also the question of what processing (smoothing, averaging, bounding etc.) occurs in MSFS for mouse inputs. I doubt Asobo or any 3rd party developers spend a lot of time validating mouse-flying with their products as it certainly is an edge case for people seeking a high-fidelity flight model experience.