Issues with the 787 - Going crazy!

Hey there. Like many I was thrilled to see the updated 787 avionics. When the update released, I read through all the documentation, read and played through the tutorial flight, watched youtubers do their own flights… And yet every flight I’ve tried has had major issues. This ISN’T a bug report per se, I’m trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong, or it’s a known limitation etc. Then I can submit a bug report (if it is indeed a bug, and not my own incompetence…)

The issues I’m having are:

Frequently the 787 won’t ‘capture’ the LNAV on takeoff. Usually my route starts from the runway heading so not only am I close to the line, I’m usually dead on it. Last time it didn’t engage at all and when I hit the button, it’d light up for a fraction of a second, then turn off.

The plane, on VNAV is ascending wayyyyy too fast. Sometimes +7000f/s, and the VNAV isn’t getting the engines up to the appropriate speeds (ie 250kts), rather it just sticks at 180/190 ish (the most that the plane can get to with 7000 f/s VS!!). I’m engaging TO/GA at around 50kts, what am I missing?

At my TOD, the 787 isn’t descending automatically per the VNAV. I have the Altitude set to 3-9000ft (depending on the airport/approach), and wait for quite a while, but the plane just sits in SPD/VNAV PTH mode.

What am I doing wrong here? It almost feels like the 787 didn’t get updated for me at all…

When I engage the AP after takeoff, I use Flight Level Change (FLC) to climb. I set the speed to 200 at takeoff and after I’m on AP and everything is good I increased the speed to 250. I can’t say this is textbook, but it works for me.

I’m having the same problem at TOD. For some flights, VNAV works great and for others, it won’t. I’m not sure what the difference is between flights.

Not capturing the LNAV after take can be caused by several things. The first waypoint might be a discontinuity or VECTORS. This means the aircraft will continue to fly on its current heading. If it gets too far away from the flight path, you have to manually fly the aircraft back to the flight path. The easiest way to do this is to copy the second waypoint into the scratchpad by pressing the key next to it. Then copy the scratchpad into to first waypoint and press EXEC. If LNAV isn’t automatically enabled, then enable it. A new route has been generated to get you back on track.

VNAV is confusing because sometimes it doesn’t do what we think it should be doing. There are three key parts to understanding VNAV: altitude, speed, and flight path. All three are dynamically computed for the VNAV PTH.

If you are flying at 300 knots @ 18,000 ft and you want to descend to 250 kts @ 10,000 ft. But the VNAV doesn’t seem to be responding to what you entered. If your flight plan shows the next two waypoints at 18,000 ft, the VNAV will keep flying at 18,000 ft and then start descending to 10,000 ft. It looks like it is doing nothing while it is waiting. It is possible to override the VNAV to start descent now and your vertical path takes you below those two waypoints. But if those waypoint restrictions are to fly aircraft over mountains, overriding the VNAV might guide you into mountains!

Let’s use the same example without the waypoints. As soon as you enter 250/10000, the VNAV should start descending, right? The other part of the VNAV calculation is the speed. You are having the VNAV slow the aircraft from 300 kts to 250 kts. When is the aircraft going to slow down? Before descent, after descent, during descent? If the aircraft slows down before descent, then the V/S will be lower. If you watch the speed, you’ll see the VNAV slow the aircraft before starting descent. Again it looks like the VNAV isn’t doing anything. The 787 is a very aerodynamic aircraft and is difficult at times to slow down. This is the time to extend the air brakes to slow the aircraft quickly.

If you look at the waypoints in the FMC, some of the waypoints have normal size numbers such as 250/10000. These are waypoint restrictions from navigation charts. The waypoint above it might have something like 263/11378 in small numbers. These smaller numbers are the VNAV calculated numbers being used to reach the next waypoint at 250/10000.

Unfortunately ATC messes up VNAV. They often give altitude and speed restrictions that don’t fit the VNAV path. IRL pilots will turn off VNAV and either use V/S or FLCHG. In MSFS we have the ability to ignore or turn off ATC and fly VNAV without losing our pilots license.

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OP - It’s my understanding, that LNAV will not catch route unless you are within 5 degrees of the course it’s supposed to fly. This is true in PMDG-737 and other planes I have flown in sim.
On the Glareshield, push in on the altitude knob, this will cause the plane to start to descend provided you have put in a lower altitude. Either the SID waypoints altitude, or the first waypoint on the ILS approach should be your minimum, if SID, then you need to change that to the next lower altitude as the flight steps through it’s plan. I normally just pick the first waypoint on the approach plate, UNLESS, the difference is huge, then, I will use VS and dial in the approximate FPM decrease to arrive at the correct altitude at Approach Plate first waypoint.

If using ATC in sim, this all flies out the window, as they NEVER start your descent soon enough, nor do they get you to the first waypoint on the AP, that is assuming they have not changed your arrival RW. You most likely are close to doing it correct, it’s just a complicated process, and MSFS is not near perfect on this stuff. 787 to me is not worth wasting time on, still think flight model is bogus, and that plane flies different than any other ever flown in sim. Mainly because of the fly by wire system, and how that interprets my navigation using controls. A computer inside the thing, does change input values (so no overstress on Airframe), and it thinks it’s smarter than you the pilot). The wing flex looks like a goose landing to me.

The 747 is better, but I’m too fighting it to work correctly. If you want almost perfect plane, PMDG-737, but learning curve too, comes with excellent documentation and tutorial flight spelled out. I printed them out, keep in binder and when flying have handy reference, with my highlights on the bits I tend to forget.

I cannot speak to facts on this statement "I think there is an order of input into FMC/CDU system, one tutorial does it one way, one checklist does it another way, PMDG’s does not enter some of the arrival information until close to descent, so you have to do that inflight. I find moving all over the cockpit to see the FMS, cumbersome. Find and print out the Keyboard Binds on moving around CP, that helped me a lot. Fly away simulation has downloadable keyboard bindings free. But in cockpit just play with CTRL + 1-9 and see what happens, that made huge difference for me. Assume this only works in MSFS, as you use those your brain will learn them.

In Xplane you can bind a keyboard command (normally Alt + C) to pop out the FMS so you can have it displayed on the screen, so you see what your progression is. MSFS does not have that, nor is their a tablet for pilot (assumed you can display FMS on it), so, limitations in both. One thing in XP, which is needed in MSFS is a way to quickly and easily setup a 10-20 mile out approach so you can test your settings in the AP/FMS system. You can start a flight in the air, but I find that almost impossible to pinpoint correctly. Just easier as a choice in setting up the flight. Ease of use in XP is much better. However, everyone love graphics in MSFS, yes it’s nice, but not accurate, change season to winter, and notice all the green vegetation at a location which should be brown.

One other thing, all planes have a learning curve, and it’s not something which will be gold first attempt, trial and some error will occur. Do not be discouraged, and if necessary, step away and do something else which is fun. I have similar issues with 747 in MSFS and the SSG-747 in Xplane, both giving me fits. Some similarities, but enough difference nothing in XPs or MSFS version are transferrable as learning. Oh, well the APU starts the same.

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Thank you everyone for the replies so far!! You’ve given me a lot to tinker with or try out that will hopefully improve my navigating.

I was a bit worried I would get some snarky replies, but these were really useful and substantive answers, so again thank you for taking the time!!

I was looking forward to the avionics update on the 787, but as soon as it came up the two inboard crt screens and lower crt screen is blank. Also no heading and airspeed indicator. Does anyone know of a fix for this?

Have you initialized the irs units? They are on the overhead panel.

you need to set your MCP Altitude (the altitude showing on the AP pilot) to something lower than what you’re currently at. Typically speaking, i set this to my GS intercept height. This is a fundamental difference between boeing and airbus.

That’s the well documented black avionics bug. Nothing specific to the 787 or the update or anything. The community consensus is that it’s the result of a memory issue, so it usually happens at highly detailed airports in highly detailed aircraft.

thank you for sharing your thoughts. this bug is really irritating.

Definitely. I’ve been flying the PMDG 737 since it came out and most of the airports that I’ve bought on the marketplace cause the avionics to black out.

The bug tends to happen immediately or shortly after loading in, or on short approach to a highly detailed airport. Some of us have found that if the bug happens immediately after loading in, sometimes you can resolve it temporarily by using the restart button to load your flight again. Unfortunately, if it happens on approach, it obviously isn’t a viable workaround to restart a flight that you’re already about to finish, so you’ll just have to live with it. One thing to note is that despite the blank screens, the aircraft an its systems continue to run as they should, so you can still land, taxi in, and shutdown without the aid of avionics.

The worst case scenario with this bug is when it happens immediately after loading in and cannot be resolved by restarting the flight. For example, FlyTampa’s KLAS is one of the most highly detailed airports I own, and it produces black screens in any airliner no matter how many times you reload. It’s impossible to initialize a flight without programming the FMC, so the airport is basically unusable with airliners. Like you said, really irritating.

I hope this information is helpful; let me know if you have any questions. I’m curious, are you on Xbox or PC? I think the bug mostly affects Xbox users but I’ve heard of PC players experiencing it too.

Also, for further reading, here’s one of the threads about this issue:

Hmmm, on my Throttle unit, I have a switch set to turn on/off avionics, and have not had any screens go blank on my flights, but, normally do not fly out of busy airports and into busy airports, preferring to practice with the plane some first. But if you can bind avionics to switch, does/can/will turning them off and then back on fix it?

I have two 747-8s, one here in MSFS and one in X-Plane 12, and cannot remember which sim tried KPDX to KSEA in, actually think tried it in both, for MSFS no blank screen period, nor in the PMDG 737 either. It must be a random thing for some, has never happened to me at all. Weird. As aside, in PMDG-737, neither of my battery/avionics switches work, all my other buttons/switches do. In all other MSFS planes, all my switches work.

Have you tried the tutorial flight and how did that go?

If you don’t turn the Flight Director on you will not get AutoPilot

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I recently bought the Premium for the 787. After reading about all the avionics updates I thought they cleared most things up but this plane is driving me crazy, especially with AP. First of all, I have to restart the flight sometimes because the game loads without my flight plan logged in. Then most recently, even though the FP was properly set with the approach and everything, there is a missing portion of my heading so basically once the AP reaches that part, it just flys into infinity because it has a missing gap between the two magenta points and will not re-engage, it just stays thrown off course.

I asked on Reddit…they said change the heading BUT what is the point if I literally cant leave my aircraft alone maybe when I come back it would be in Africa by then because it steered off course and only way of knowing that is to stare at the cockpit at all times.

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There are two types of gaps that you might see in the FMC. The first is DISCONTINUITY. The second is VECTORS. If you don’t do anything the autopilot will continue to fly the aircraft on the same heading until it runs out of fuel.

DISCONTINUITIES can be anywhere in the flight plan, usually where the arrival (STAR) exit doesn’t match the approach entry.

VECTORS are often in SIDs and STARs where is says something like “ATC will give you vectors…” Vectors are an ATC assigned heading, altitude, and speed. ATC may give you more than one vector. Eventually you should arrive at waypoint either in your plan or on an approach chart. Sometimes ATC forgets about you so it is possible to “request vectors to the next waypoint.” You have to use the heading mode to change direction.

You can remove a DISCONTINUITY or a VECTOR from your flight plan in the FMC. First, make sure the line you want to remove is displayed on the screen. Press the DEL key and then the left side button of the line to delete. Then press the green EXEC button. This is best done on the ground before takeoff. Be careful to delete the correct line! I haven’t found the UNDO button yet.

Deleting those gaps will connect everything in your plan without having to worry about getting off-track.

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TLDR; the plane is doing exactly what it is supposed to. The new update did fix most things up, but it also made the aircraft more realistic. You now have to learn how to use it. There are many, many instruction videos on YouTube available.

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WombiiActualRegular

13d

To set up a basic route that the LNAV will follow:
[RTE], enter departure ICAO code into the ORIGIN field.
Enter runway number into RUNWAY field.
Enter destination ICAO code into the DEST field.
Click Activate, then [EXEC]
[DEP/ARR] x2 then select the ARR for the destination airport. Select an Approach, then [EXEC]

[LEGS] page shows the current flightplan. At this point you likely won’t have a magenta line on the nav display yet, as the LEGS page will have a discontinuity. To clear this, select the line below the disc to copy it, then paste it into the line above. Then [EXEC] again.
The Nav Display should now draw a magenta line.
(In the screenshot below I would click the button next to REBLI to copy it, then click the button on the line above to paste it).
image

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Hey there!

I’ve been trying to figure this out to as I’ve never flown this aircraft. It seems you must be on the flight plan’s path before you can enable LNAV. Fly on the path of your plan THEN enable LNAV. If this doesn’t work, make sure you have your Flight Director turned on, otherwise autopilot does not function. If VNAV (Vertical Navigation) does not work, make sure you have right clicked on the select altitude option, then, make sure you have entered your cruising altitude in the VNAV section of your CDU.

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Yes. All these things are basic procedures for Boeing aircraft. There are more as well.

You probably should study up on these procedures, or watch some instructional videos to make your flights more enjoyable.

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