Lionheart Creations - Trinidad TB-21 Released

I concur with your findings. I own one.
I use JF’s one in X-Plane.

At first the model was nothing like the series, but over time Bill has been improving it. Thumbs up.
If we can provide good feedback, and the developer continues to respond to that feedback, we’ll eventually get to a really good model.

When we had a TB-21 flying like a non-turbo TB-20, why no add that as a feature? Let’s get rid of the third OBS: HSI, and two VORs.

As I stated in an earlier post, “Then let’s get down to the picayune stuff.”
His post is a good starting point.

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So you have a lot to say for someone not flying the plane in MSFS… If you just watch reviews you will probably be mislead (on this very plane) since updates have make this plane from “meh” to “ok” with solid work on what was a problem for customers.
=> customer support on this plane has been serious, real and evolutive towards what customers wanted.

If you are not a customer you will have missed that very important part.

Bill’s TB-21 does have some quirks, like the visual mistakes you pointed. But it is great that someone knowing the plane inside out get Bill a solid feedback, which I think you should address that TO HIM NOT TO US, so everyone here can profit of your knowledge :slight_smile:

Also you need to take in consideration that MSFS is not XP11, and you cannot get the same “depth” in both sims concerning gauges support. But I confess I don’t know the real plane at all (just saw some on the ground).

That said, so far I have no plane behaving “correclty” on all fronts in MSFS, so it is hard to throw a rock at this one specificly and not at most of the other planes btw, the simgame is “brand new” (in the hands of Asobo) and really must mature a lot before claiming to be “a good overall flight simming platform” as revendicated initially (lol).

My review on this very plane would be :

For 25$, the plane is ok, not good not bad, just ok. Textures and external model are ok but need love, even since last update, I think people would like a bit of “pimp” on this…
The pit is good, with many gauges active, a working GPS and related AP (which is a good thing it works nowaday in MSFS !), a decent startup procedure (not realistic). Lighting in the cockpit at night is really good now, but shadows are still strange and edgy in some conditions.
There are animations and ground clutter as you would imagine nowadays.
Performances close to the actual POH when in flight (making it my fastest piston plane btw !).
Some gauges seems not to be related to a real value (to compare with all Carenado planes having more of gauges wrong…), and the turbo logic can not be followed as for all turbo planes in MSFS (Asobo’s part of that code is not exiting yet… Same with the prop RPM logic in MSFS still broken since release…), which is of course a bummer for this kind of performance plane, but it is still a very fast plane and the fuel consumption is on par with POH, speed at cruise too.

Sound set of the plane is not on par with MSFS’s default quality, but making a WWISE soundset is VERY EXPENSIVE and need specific work/ hardware (and of course the real plane), which I don’t think Lionheart had access to (both hardware and plane…).
The result of having the old sound set from FSX (I presume ?) is that there is no internal/ external sound set and that is a big issue for immersion when you open doors… Also the quality is a bit low (in some configurations you can guess the soundloop). That is btw true for most of the planes available for MSFS : only rare addon planes have a real soundset made for that sim !

I enjoy flying this plane in MSFS as I don’t have the M20R Ovation and wanted a performing piston, and I am very happy to see that the support and updating on this one has been better when the support of the Ovation has just been non-existant then worse.

25$ is for me “a bit much” for a plane in MSFS, considering the market and the new habits Asobo is trying to make (15$ for the JU-52 and a lot of “plane” for that price !). I think “old devs” still have very bad memories and fears of very low selling numbers, thus higher prices… But then Carenado, which is the big “plane partner” for MSFS, should also show a good example and get their planes in the good price range too ! But MSFS is selling millions of copies, prices will go down anyway.
If you have/ need/ want to get a fast turbo-piston plane right now in MSFS, this one is at that time a more solid option than the Carenado planes.

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I’m fairly happy with the state of this plane for it being the only TB available, but I agree with all of the observations in this thread. LHC has never been known for top-notch addons but I will say I was a huge fan of his Fairchild 24. I would absolutely buy that if he released it for MSFS. His Pacer pack wasn’t too shabby either.

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Me thinking it’s a pretty plane is my opinion :grinning:

Me thinking it is a ‘pretty’ aircraft, too! :+1: :grinning:

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Briefly reading some posts above. So sad how low grade dog food makes it on the in game marketplace while in this parallel thread people are tearing into a good faith effort.

By all means, say what is inaccurate, but I would have bought this in a heartbeat if it had come available on Xbox versus the obvious cash grab drivel that was offered.

I feel like Asobo/MS is trying to sell a cheap version of ace combat with bing maps on Xbox . I’d very much welcome the Trinidad to my library.

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Pretty but not realistic then :sweat_smile:.

I’m really enjoying this plane. I’m wondering, how can I get the touch display show in this video?

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That’s the GTN750 addon by PMS50. There’s a free and payware version.

Thanks - I just downloaded this to give it a try. Looks like the default system is still there. I guess I need to customize something. I’ll look into it. Other planes have the new GTN750 (the ones that are on the plane list on that site).

The TB21 does not support the 750 yet either natively or via a mod as far as I’m aware. It’s up to either the develop or a third party to do it.

I saw in your video the little pushbutton between the battery and alternator is used as avionic master switch (called radio master switch on TB), it is NOT. In fact its the Go-around button installed on TBs with certain type of autopilot! Its also wrongly labelled, it should read “GA” bellow those arrows. Its hard to see, couldn’t find a better picture unfortunately but it is labelled “GA”.

To the Dev:

The radio master switch (if installed) is either above the switch breaker panel (at the bottom of the radio stack) or on the left lower panel, next to the gear lever.

The annunciator is the wrong type, its a non-GT annunciator panel so this TB-20/21 GT, from the cockpit is actually a non-GT version.

GT annunciator panel:

Non-GT annunciator panel:

The Lionheart TB annunciator panel is labelled from left to right:

  1. Oil Pressure
  2. Parking Brake
  3. Fuel OFF
  4. ALT
  5. VAC
  6. Fuel Low
  7. Landing light
  8. Auxiliary suction
  9. Taxi light
  10. Pitot heat
  11. Fuel pump

This configuration does not exist on the real TB-20/21.

Other findings:

  • Fuel selector rotates from LEFT to OFF, not from RIGHT the long way around to OFF. Little detail → you need to press the switch DOWN when on the LEFT tank before you can turn it to OFF.
  • The engine can’t be started with the engine full rich. The mixture is enriched with the fuel pump ON and throttle slightly open to “prime” the engine, then started with idle-cutoff. The engine will flood with mixture full rich.
  • The landing gear lever is a electrical switch and not a mechanical lever with a slot in the instrument panel. Also the gear light test switch is missing.
  • Instrument panels are too round.
  • The texture used on the glareshield (leather like fabric) is not used anywhere else on the instrument panels (same is used now on the switch breaker panel for example).
  • Apart from a different annunciator panel the GT has a black main instrument panel “inset”, in the photo below you can clearly see the different (darker - black) color of the main instrument panel and the different annunciator panel.
    *The white handles below the instrument panel to adjust the seat only extend slightly below the panel, almost laying flush. You can’t get your fingers between the handle and the panel.
  • Flap indicator is wrong, the “dot” represents the take-off / approach position and does not move, instead there should be a little pointer moving along the scale.

From an exterior point of view, the biggest immersion killers are:

  • Air intakes next to the spinner for cooling air are way too large. The intake / filter is too small. The TB-21 lower cowling has a slightly different shape to accommodate the turbocharger.
  • The model appears to be a TB-9/10 rather than a TB-20/21, the TB-20/21 has a different shape, longer cowling, on the lower side tapering to the fairing below the wings to house the gear. Instead the bottom of the plane appears flat, more like a TB-9/10.
  • The TB-20/21 does NOT have a nose landing gear door. The aircraft only has a tiny plate mounted directly to the strut but this can hardly be called a door.
  • The little steps behind the wing to step onto the wing during entry should be lower and they don’t retract!
  • The anti-balance / trim tab is too small. On the TB-9/10 a tiny strip along the full trailing edge functions as anti-balance / trim tab. On the TB-20/21 the trim tab does not run full span but extends further in.
  • The stabilizer does not sit so high on top of the tail cone. Instead the top should be completely flush with the top of the tail tapering down with the elevator neutral.
  • The engine is installed at an angle to correct for slipstream effect, as can be seen below (its a TB-10 but idea is the same):

@LyonHaart001

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Yes, as far as I know the GTN750 is not natively supported on the Trinidad. But if you have the mod installed, you can open a pop-out GTN750 display by clicking on its panel tool bar icon at the top of the screen.

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Astute observations. I’ve never flown one so I had to look up some GT panels but you’re right. There are many (quite solvable!) issues here, hopefully Lionheart can release a patch in the future to get this model more in line with the real world version. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen any other developer take a stab at this aircraft in sim so it might be a situation where competition can’t compel the developer, but I’ll add on to your voice that I’d like to see some corrections. I enjoy the aircraft very much but I’m not going to be able to unsee some of what you’ve pointed out (namely the annunciator panel which is quite different in the GT.)

A good source for SOCATA TB series information and photos is Socata TB Users Group .

Just flight had a good TB-20 for X-plane (for 10 euro more), the aircraft came with a TB-10 as well. Unfortunately they didn’t take the effort of changing the exterior model, it was basically a TB-20 exterior model with the gear welded down and a carb. heat lever added. The TB-20 was really good though! (TB-10 also when not looking at the exterior model). On the TB-20 I have not been able to find anything that is off from the real aircraft (its a non-GT version as advertised). It even had spark plug fouling simulated when taxiing for long periods at low power etc., really thoroughly modelled.

Real aircraft:

Just Flight (FSX, P3D, X-plane 11):

Lionheart (MSFS):

Only weird thing is that they are simulating a very rare version of the TB-20 with wing and tail anti-icing (TKS modification), I have never seen any aircraft equipped with that. Otherwise the Just Flight model is really good.

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Thank you.

Sorry Haddock, been away for a while travelling, let me look into your suggestions and report back.

did those changes and all seems OK now thanks

Update 6…

Seems to have broken some of the panel switches.

couldn’t start, except for Ctrl-E…
fuel selector stuck on right tank
the avionics switch inop. Avionics powered on iwth battery.
no needle movement VOR number 2

Just a short flight KBUR → KSBA