Make it impossible to spawn on runway in Live mode

Here is my opinion to fix this issue we all are having with too many aicraft on the runway:

  1. Create spawn points short of runway hold short line with aircraft “running”.

AND/OR

2)add a drop down in that allows you to choose any spawn point with aircraft “running” or “cold and dark” option.

I think most people choose the runway position in order to shorten the amount of time required to start flying,

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Still hoping we’ll get this some day.

Great idea, this should be quite simple to implement and adds a lot of realism

I’ve just realized my topic was merged into this one:

Spawn only at the RWY Holding Position, not on the RWY itself - Self-Service / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

@FlambeBike37299 +1, however, it is not just when in LIVE mode this is a problem:

  • In live mode, never spawning on RWY is important for the pilots already online in a session, especially those in short final

  • In non-live mode, never spawning on RWY is also important when you have AI traffic or RT traffic.

I believe the “never spawn on RWY” should be ubiquitous whether you’re in MP session or not. If you agree, you might want to change the title to reflect this?

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I just became aware of this thread, and of course gave it my vote. I basically stopped flying in multiplayer mode because I got tired of someone just popping into existence on the runway I was just about to land on.

I even had one person on this very board call me some not so nice things because he felt his schedule that limited him from spawning in a parking spot and doing a full startup (which is my recommendation for realistic multiplayer, not even spawning at the hold short line) somehow violated his right to spawn wherever and whenever he dam well felt like it. I wish I remembered his name so I could call him out publicly, but fortunately (I guess), I don’t.

Anyway, I’m 1,000% in favor of this idea, or even taking it a step further and somehow require lifelike realism in a separate MP tier. No buzzing the tower, no constantly flying over the airport and doing aerobatics, etc., etc. Not sure how that could be made enforceable, but maybe someone smarter than me could figure it out. I’ll just be the “idea guy” lol…

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You might want to also consider the following:

Help solving arcade and simmers players sharing the airspace with the help of a simple nudge

Multiplayer: display other players actual aircraft 3D models and liveries around you

What about this: When flying with “All players” players should spawn just off the runway (or at the gate/parking). In “Live players” spawn should always be at parking / gate. Or is that too strict?

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Just let people spawn on the runways or close to runways but not be seen until they are away from the airport.

Stopping spawning on runways would only partially sort the issue. Had two pilots taxi onto the active runway while I was on final. They waited for a third to join them completely oblivious to the planes coming in.

Different tiers of MP is exactly what I’d like to see. Give the nutjobs their wild, wild west, no rules, anything goes option, and have one for us serious guys which includes rules like what you’ve described, or even stricter. (Like must be on a IFR flight plan, and must STICK to the plan without deviation, or whatever makes sense and is actually enforceable within the sim as it currently exists.)

They could enable damage from plane to plane collisions, which would of course ruin the end of your flight, but it might also teach them a lesson to not do what they were doing. My only concern is rather than learning that lesson, they might only respond by getting angry at whoever hit them while they were hogging the airport up, because that is somehow their gawd given right to f-up the experience for everybody else by just sitting on an active runway for no good reason.

@NaylorSweden @CurriedCat @KevyKevTPA

In my opinion any “enforcement” is bad. It is bad because it is causing grief, and it is bad because it doesn’t change habits. Instead, people will fly away from the enforced place and nothing will be solved.

Instead, there are multiple issue I can see and it is not easy to solve because these are orthogonal concepts:

The main reason people spawn on runway might be to save taxi time, but I believe it is more because the aircraft is ready to fly with all startup procedures already done. I personally don’t want to always start it all up and I like being able to quickly jump in and fly for example. I’m not saying my point of view is the same for everyone but I wouldn’t be surprised the main reason people do spawn on the RWY is because this is the only option for starting the simulator with an aircraft up and running. When I do spawn on the runway for this reason, the first thing I immediately do when pressing the “READY” button is pressing the Y key (slew mode) and quickly shift the position aside to free the RWY.

The other problem is people of different skills and different flying objectives. Some are just having fun and others want to fly by the book.

Because of these 2 main problems, you end up with a mix of people disrespecting the others, holding the runway fort and frustrated pilots.

This is why I believe it won’t require much for addressing these 2 main orthogonal issues:

  1. Use a nudge to drive same minded pilots to the correct existing lobby. There is no need to create a collection of lobbies, the 2 existing are already sufficient for this. Eventually a 3rd one only for people flying with online networks like Vatsim or Pilotedge so that they don’t interfere with the other same minded pilots wanting to also fly by the book but under the FS2020 ATC system.

  2. Prevent spawning anyone on the RWY. This is just common sense and I don’t care pilots piling up on the threshold instead of the RWY end: the most important is to preserve the landing pilot from obstruction first and foremost. Furthermore, in taking the habit of spawning on the threshold, especially if the “FLY NOW” button also displays a “LOOK FOR AIRCRAFT LANDING PRIOR ENGAGING ON THE RWY”, pilots will slowly but surely learn it is important to pay attention to this.

  3. Add the option to start in the cockpit engines running and startup procedures done. This will refrain people from having to start at the RWY threshold only because otherwise they’d have to start from C&D cockpits.

With only this, not much to code and implement actually, it would already make a difference.

PS: the 1st option above is just changing the description text in the UI, the 2nd option is just changing the spawning point and the description in the UI, the 3rd option is just adding the code you’d run in the actual “spawn on runway” case. You see, not much to code and even test prior release. Can be done in 1/2 day by a single developer from the existing code base.

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All very sensible and really what should be there.
I’d say they should consider renaming the two mp modes to make it a bit more obvious which is the more casual of the two.

Last thing I want to see is stopping people from enjoying the game how they want to play it (whether that be causal, serious or like me something in between).

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Maybe just don’t make the active runway the default option, instead making the default a gate or parking spot. That would prevent absent minded pilots pressing the Fly button and then realising they are about to potentially mess up someone’s flight, by not changing from the default.

To remove the need for such positions requiring a cold start, just provide an option for aircraft to load with engines running in parking spots or on a gate.

May have said this elsewhere, but why not simply spawn aircraft holding short of the active, rather than on the piano keys?

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I’ve also had it where I’ve selected a gate to start from but for some reason it spawned me on the runway. Can only assume it spawned another player at the gate I was trying to spawn at.

I think that’s an excellent idea. Typically I never start on the runway, unless I’m doing some specific testing (say maybe a setting change, or a new mod, or whatever), but sometimes I forget to change it and end up on the runway (because it’s the default) where I don’t want to be (regardless of whether or not I’m active in a multiplayer session), so I have to go back and reset the whole flight to start in a parking spot, which is where I wanted to be in the first place!

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or (much quicker):

  1. The spawning locations of AI vehicles needs to be addressed. It is crazy to see a ground vehicle on the runway just as I was about to land!

  2. There are times when I like to start at a gate cold and dark performing manually the preflight and startup checklists. Other times I prefer being ready and cleared for takeoff as soon as I spawn.

  3. Runway incursions happen IRL. Planes taxi into position for takeoff without a clearance or taxi across an active runway without clearance. This is a bigger problem at non-tower uncontrolled airports especially if one pilot doesn’t have his radio on.

I saw this from a similar suggestion. I support no spawning on the runway in live/multiplayer. Instead, I suggest either gate/ramp/parking or the holding spot off of the runway. People will still roll out on the runway without checking traffic for sure, but at least those who want to model good behavior won’t be plopped on the runway as the only alternative to a 20+ minute preflight startup.

I’d suggest ability to start ready to go (check lists complete, just as on runway) from the gate/ramp/parking or the holding spot for a selected runway. Just add a new option “hold” for each runway selection in the drop down and maybe a checkbox for ready vs cold/dark.

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There is another topic specifically for the C&D vs “Ready” aircraft here:
Start with aircraft ready-to-fly or cold-and-dark option when spawning on RAMP/GATE