Help solving arcade and simmers players sharing the airspace with the help of a simple nudge

Official Microsoft Flight Simulator Wishlist
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TL;DR:

Therefore I’d suggest the following approach

using behavioral nudges which could just be as simple as having clearly named lobbies. *

For example the “LIVE” lobby could be subtitled:
“Use this lobby for sharing the airspace with other virtual pilots abiding by ATC rules”

The “Normal” lobby could be subtitled:
“Use this lobby for fun flying or for exploring the vast FS2020 world”

With just a simple twist in the wording I believe the existing 2 multiplayer environments might serve likely-minded pilots better.

Hi,

There is a growing concern about other players doing aerobatics over airports, standing on runways, slewing around, taking off and landing from both runway ends, overall not following a minimum flying rules.

There is on the other hand simmers trying and following procedures, sharing the sky in a responsible manner as close to real life, at a minimum taking ATC instructions for runways in service, giving way when crossing aircraft on the taxiway, etc…

Some are recommending to create groups for this but:

  • Isn’t the main issue with creating groups in this case being you must have a list of “friends” to create the group with?

  • What about the times you’d like to fly any place and encounter strangers sharing the same airspace and abiding by the same set of “flying rules” (as close as IRL)?

Some others are recommending to use Vatsim for this but:

  • it might be the best solution to fly by the rules with communications but there are times you probably can’t talk (relatives sleeping) or won’t talk (not mastering the phraseology enough for Vatsim for example).

  • What about flying by the rules with synthetic communications only (i.e. simulator ATC and coordination between user’s aircraft)?

I believe suggestions for a “separately identified” lobby/server doesn’t preclude flying in groups. Instead it is promoting flying together with similarly minded pilots. I also believe no one as a perfect solution and given more options, and with more people using those options, the community as a whole, like a living organism, will determine the best balance.

Therefore I’d suggest the following approach using behavioral nudges which could just be as simple as having clearly named lobbies. *

For example the “LIVE” lobby could be subtitled:

“Use this lobby for sharing the airspace with other virtual pilots abiding by ATC rules”

The “Normal” lobby could be subtitled:

“Use this lobby for fun flying or for exploring the vast FS2020 world”

With just a simple twist in the wording I believe the existing 2 multiplayer environments might serve likely-minded pilots better.

*https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/09/whats-a-urinal-fly-and-what-does-it-have-to-with-winning-a-nobel-prize/

Thaler and co-author Cass Sunstein define it as a choice “that alters people’s behavior in a predictable way without forbidding any options or significantly changing their economic incentives.” The important thing about nudges? They’re not mandates. Nudges don’t attempt to make it impossible to do the wrong thing, but rather they make it easier to do the right thing.

Other related comments:
Make it impossible to spawn on runway in Live mode - #37 by CptLucky8

Additional suggestions:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/why-other-planes-disappear-when-i-fly-in-formation/445029/8?u=cptlucky8

When using the “LIVE” lobby (“Use this lobby for sharing the airspace with other virtual pilots abiding by ATC rules”), other players wouldn’t disappear either.

Collision detection can remain off but they won’t vanish when flying too close and this would therefore allow formation flying among other things.

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I too have thought about this! Unfortunately it is only going to get worse as time goes on, and especially when the XBox version takes off.

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For those that fly in Elite Dangerous, you’re probably familiar with how some of the players there got around a similar issue. Players who want to dogfight with other players (PVP), and players that wanted to do other things (trading, exploring, mining,etc) and avoid PVP fights. Some users set up a “mobius” group that you could join, and start the game in a “group session” with only players that don’t want to PVP. Sure, occasionally someone in the möbius group would go after one of the other players. You could report anyone doing this and they would be warned or banned from the group.
I wonder if a similar “private group” could be set up in MSFS to allow pilots to fly more realistic activities without dealing with the vatsim issues some people either aren’t ready for, or just don’t want to deal with at the time for whatever reason.
Regards
P.S. last I saw, mobius had something like 16,000 players in the group, so it’s not just small groups.

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You don’t need to talk on vatsim, they provide a chat option.

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My suggestion is not dissimilar to the “möbius group” you’re referring to;

There are already 2 standard groups in the simulator (Live and Normal) and what I’m suggesting is using a nudge in order to naturally draw “simmers wanting to fly more seriously” and “casual pilots wanting to have fun” into these 2 respective groups.

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Yea, that’s what I was trying to point out. It can and has been made to work, and there’s no reason we can’t set up a similar process.
Regards

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I’m a member of Mobius and without it wouldn’t even play E:D. This is an excellent idea.

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Just picking this up to share my own gripes and continue the discussion.

I totally feel your pain and agree there needs to be a solution… an administrated group like what has been mentioned surely has to be the only way, though.

Even with strong nudges, unless there is a repercussion for messing around in the “serious simmin’ (no G)” group, I just don’t think it’ll work… I’d love to be wrong, though. I’d love to join a VATsim-esk group, but with just in-game ATC.

Yet the in-game mode offerings are frustrating close to offering this so I understand this request… I too feel that when it comes to the xbox release, we’ll be flooded with gamers having a laugh, which they are of course perfectly entitled to do!

I also want an alternative to Vatsim, which for me is too serious, I don’t want to learn everything about ATC and feel stressed that I’m ruining others experiences because I’m not a real pilot and vatsim serves a different need to mine.

On a related note, I feel like I read on here or watched on a recent Q&A that online pilots don’t all hear the same in-game ATC, as it’s all calculated local to each player? I’ve never flown online with another pilot that I know to compare ATC interactions…

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Thanks to @GSF1200SAK6 Q&A question, I’ve added this suggestion to the OP.

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What I was addressing in my QA was about other planes disappearing in multiplayer mode.
I don’t want other planes to disappear when I’m in a group sightseeing or formation flying (not following ATC and rules).
Sometimes the group will do coffee missions like Top-Gun to airport control towers or radio towers.
I have no objection to separating the mode of flying for realism and the mode of flying for comfort, but I don’t want other planes to disappear in either mode.

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