Multiplayer: display other players actual aircraft 3D models and liveries around you

In multiplayer you won’t see each other aircraft properly because FS2020 is either mocking other players aircraft with one from the defaults, or from an optimized pool of generic 3D models (depending on your settings).

With the expected growing list of aircraft available in the Market Place and other online resources, this is depriving the community from the immersion of flying with other aircraft accurately represented, not only from a visual standpoint but also from a practical standpoint.

Let me illustrate the “visual standpoint”: I was at KOAK the other day and I’ve seen 2 SouthWest operated flights on the tarmac which were Beechcraft Bonanza G36… even though I selected the “no substitution” options. I’ve found this rather unexpected for a SouthWest flight departing KOAK.

As for the “practical standpoint”, here are a few example:

Look at the flying MP aircraft in front of the upcoming Milviz Corsair (video starts at 34:30)

Here is the link to a video showing Mirage 2000 in FS2020. I wouldn’t like seeing a generic Cessna replacing the M2000 flying 1000 kts passing me by and wondering what the heck all these maneuvers:

Similarly, if someone is flying an ultra light which is supposed to have higher traffic priority to an airplane, I would like to see it accurately represented so that I can respect procedures in a Vatsim like session or any other Live session for example.

Using Minecraft as an example: when playing on servers the game caches other players skins and capes and you see them in your game exactly like they are expected.

Suggestion:

  1. Add SDK support for 3rd party developers to add MP 3D model (Multiplayer Model - Visual Only). This would be a separate 3D model + textures + animations container they can provide alongside their full model. More details…

Each 3rd party 3D model should respect a pre-defined naming convention (make / model / etc…) so that it could be replaced locally with a better visual model if any (see point 6).

  1. The MP 3D model can have any animation embedded and tied to any simvar or custom var, but with limitations (see point 5).

  2. If no MP 3D model is provided, automatically generate one with lower poly count just for visual representation. Limit animations to the ones using the control surfaces and gear simvars only (and probably a few others from the list pertaining to anything which is visible outside the aircraft). More details…

  3. Stream each other MP 3D models (3D + textures to the cache, animation vars in real time) so that any player can see each other with the aircraft currently flown with.

  4. Set limits to the MP 3D model to keep frame and VRam budget to minimum (like Minecraft). Textures could be limited to 2048x2048 max, animations to a dozen or so values and only in a simple linear fashion mapping directly vars to keyframes (like when using UBOs and instancing).

An additional strategy could be using the MP 3D model up to a distance and then use Asobo generic library of 3D models when farther away (see point 6).

  1. Over time, Asobo could add standard MP 3D models of the most used aircraft. You could extend the library of standard 3D models over time so that it will reduce traffic and latency while at the same time you could improve the visual representation for the players. You are already providing accurate 3D models in the simulator and you’re certainly already doing telemetry which could be used to gather stats on most flown 3rd party aircraft and therefore prioritize which to add in the default lib of MP 3D models.

  2. Don’t make the user to have to download such MP 3D models manually otherwise it will defeat the purpose because you can’t know in advance what aircraft you’ll encounter during a flight nor you can’t know all the places where to download them from.

This feature must be promoted as being an integral part of 3rd party aircraft offering so that most 3rd party vendors embrace it.

In addition to Asobo growing a list of standard MP 3D models library over time, it shouldn’t preclude other 3rd party from offering their own libraries of generic MP 3D models.

In case of duplicates, a simple selection based on the following priority should be enough:

MP 3D model included with a 3rd party aircraft > MP 3D model included in a library of MP 3D models > Asobo library.


The discussion brought additional ideas:
Make this an opt-in setting globally, and opt-out setting selectively
Why the MP model must be a mandatory component included with any 3rd party aircraft for this to work.
Why displaying other players actual aircraft and liveries can boost the Market Place sales.


NB: I’m sorry but all the above links are pointing to other posts than intended, because moderators are merging other topics into this one and when they do, this changes original posts numbers, and the links are therefore no longer valid. I’m tired of having to change these manually every time a moderator merges topics and I don’t feel like wanting to change them now once again.

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Hello everyone,

I just got back into Flight Sim. I used to fly in FSX daily and would fly with my friends for hours. Granted that was 9 years ago… but that is where the problem started.

Back then my friends and I would search the web for freeware aircraft and vehicles. We stumbled upon hundreds of different things. Of course we would share the files so that everyone will see the plane as well.

Now a decade later we have the same problem… I need to send everyone the freeware files so that others see my liveries and planes. This games already streams so much data I feel like they could have at least shared the Plane models and textures in multiplayer as well. I would like and option where the game may load longer to download other players’ Planes.

Now I guess I can understand the difficulty with 3rd party aircraft not in the marketplace, but I can’t even see my friends’ 787 since I didn’t buy the game and only have the gamepass. For me they are a generic plane floating a few feet above the taxiway…

At least add a way to Stream the Liveries and Marketplace Planes to other players so that I can see their planes and liveries correctly.

2 Likes

Yes please

Your idea is good but I am not sure if it is feasible. Streaming textures that are anything between 10mb - 200mb per aircraft at a busy airport will be almost impossible. Note that right now many people get slow streaming (popping up scenery) even though they have very fast internet connections. The problem is the server that cannot handle it. If one aircraft skin can take as many MB as entire photogrammetry around you, then imagine what would happen at a busy airport.

1 Like

I agree, this is why I’m suggesting this feature must be both mandatory whenever 3rd party is releasing an aircraft, in order for all others to see it correctly, but also because it is mandatory it can be limited to certain 3D model complexity (number of vertices) and certain maximum texture size (for the reasons you’re giving).

Again, this is not about streaming the other aircraft in its entirety, of course this doesn’t make any sense. The proposal is about streaming an impostor of the 3rd party aircraft within certain size boundaries.

1 Like

Ok, you are talking about 3rd party aircrafts only. In that case, it could be done with more work from them.

In case of community-made liveries, this would not be feasible. I personally do not even look at low-res liveries because I can see pixelated lines breaking even in 1080p, not even mention 1440p. So I usually get 4k or 8k liveries only (anything between 45mb and 250mb). So there is really no good solution available for community-made liveries.

I think that instead of streaming lower poly models and textures, they would have to be added to the main release and loaded from the sim, just like AI aircrafts are right now. Not sure if streaming is an option even if they are relatively low-res.

I think at the very least every aircraft available for purchase in the marketplace should be required to provide a model which is given to everyone in the next update of the sim. That way everyone will see the actual aircraft in multiplayer even if they don’t own it. Could be used as static parked aircraft too.

On liveries, I personally really don’t care much for them, but there still should be more. There are tons of great community liveries popping up, perhaps they could find a way to take the most popular ones and provide them for everyone in sim updates.

4 Likes

I’ve always wanted to see model matching implemented in a sim, but I’m not sure how complex it really is. Basically, the sim would send out your player model to the servers so it can be used by other players to prevent swapping out the model for another aircraft. This came up when I was doing some bush flying with the BT Kitfox and I was subbed out as the default CJ4. I think this would be a really cool way to improve the multiplayer experience as more and more addons are developed.

To day, during a multiplayer flight, we used 3rd party aircraft (DR400-140b) with specific liveries (my airclub liveries) and it was ok to see the correct aircraft and livery on each computer.
Just we’ll like to see the call sign on the sides of the other plane.

Wouldn’t this working because both of you had the same aircraft installed?

Now could you try flying a store purchased aircraft on 1 computer, and see whether it shows up on the other one?

1 Like

Yes, we have the same aircraft and livery installed on the both computer.
If not, it does not work, we try it before and had this pic

This is why I’ve created this topic to get started with!

1 Like

Another way to support custom livery sharing in real time and keep livery sizes small would be to provide an in-game livery editor that lets artists build images using a collection of abstract shaped decals. This is how multiplayer car racing games download custom liveries efficiently.

2 Likes

This is cumbersome to use though and in the end might not be this much efficient bandwidth wise.

I’m bumping this discussion before it closes automatically but I shall add there are other possible options that could be implemented for the “storage” of the MP models and textures:

  • FS2020 could stream up the models and textures to Azure servers, where they will be poly-reduced and texture-baked
  • The Azure server would stream down the simplified models + texture(s) to each MP player.

You could argue there would be too much combinations and variations but in the end, I’m not sure there would be much in practice and this could be quite efficient a solution, while preserving 3rd party vendors from any risk of model sharing because it would be streamed from Azure servers only.

1 Like

While it would be nice to see people flying realistic planes in a realistic way, there are already plenty of mods around with Starwars ships, air balloons, even a goose.
I’m not particularly interested in seeing balloons running around at mach 2, or X-wings zooming past.

I’m not sure whether you’re agreeing or not with the OP with this?!?

If not, this is the point: you’ll see the same aircraft with the same livery, as any other one around you too, flying like it is flying. Today, you could see a C152 flying like a MB339…

I agree with the OP for people flying ‘sensible’ aircraft. I strongly disagree with the OP when people are flying X-wings and supersonic balloons.

So it all depends on the situation. Since implementing this is a correct way would involve some sort of curating of what is deemed ‘acceptable’, I don’t see it happening.

This is a nice suggestion to add then:

  • implement the MP model and livery system for all to see the correct aircraft
  • make it an opt-in setting
  • provide a function to opt-out models and liveries selectively on your system.

Lucky man you are
Yesterday a friend and myself we try a multi player flight.
Both computer and MSFS on same server ( West Europe), Multiplayer mode , Live weather and so on selected
Same airport, 2 nearly closed gates
My aircraft was DR400 Robin Cadet
My friend aircraft was C172
On my MSFS Screen, friend aircraft displayed was a Longitude aircraft without landing gear !!!
On Friend screen my aircraft displayed was a TBM930 ( my favorite one)

We do missed something, but what ???

Hi,

I think you have to check the page “General, Traffic”. TH last 2 lines in “IA and Multiplayers traffic” must be deallocated.

Try it and say to me if it’s OK now.
Regards