Nothing but problems with the MSFS 2020

User Support Hub Crashes (CTDs)
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Hello everyone,

On the one hand I am enthusiastic about MSFS 2020 (in my case the Steam version) when I think of the possibilities - but mainly I am really annoyed and ■■■■■■ off. This program is as “stable and mature” as Windows ME was 20 years ago… Everything else (every application, every other game - with and without VR) runs / runs completely error-free. Even with CPU and GPU benchmarks (simultaneously, not one after the other) I don’t push the PC to its limits. Under full load (= 660 watts…) the PC runs absolutely stable. In general, my PC runs very stable and problem-free. Only the MSFS 2020 is and remains a disaster! :-/

Hardware used:

  • GPU: Gainward Pahntom Geforce RTX 4090
  • CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D
  • Mainboard: Asus ROG STRIX X670E-E GAMING WIFI, BIOS 1905
  • Power supply: Be Quiet Dark Power 13, 850 watts
  • Case: Fractal Design Define 7XL
  • RAM: 64 GB DDR5 6000 RAM
  • VR headset: Pimax Crystal
  • Thrustmaster controller: TCA Yoke, 2x TCA Quadrant B.E., TPR Expert Rudder
  • DOF Reality P3 + Next Level Racing Flight Simulator Seat + Buttkicker Gamer Pro

Aircraft used:

Boeing 747-8 / 787-10 (standard product, no paid add-ons)
Boeing 737-900 (PMDG)

Software:

  • MSFS 2020 Premium Deluxe (Steam) - MSFS 2020 Version: 1.36.2.0
  • Windows 11 Pro 23H2 x64 incl. latest updates (current: 22635.3430)

I was able to avoid many (but not all) problems for some time by simply not installing the latest updates. - But that’s not a permanent solution either. So I installed the latest updates every now and then and tried again: Then each time nothing worked at all: crashing right at startup, even before the flight. As I simply didn’t want to reset everything every time, I always backed up my settings (C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft Flight Simulator) beforehand and then restored them later.

Recently I had the idea that this could also be a problem. So I deleted the entire config and then recreated it after a successful update. Since then, the Flusi has been running at least a little bit stable. I have now installed the latest version of everything. I am running a “naked original version”, i.e. without active add-ons / community content). Apart from the PMDG Boeing 737-900, which I have not yet been able to test for a single second due to the billions of bugs in MSFS…)

Problems that I still have:

  • Crashes in mid-flight (Fortunately very rare)

  • The completely useless load/save system (Loading saved flights: Immediately leads to a crash. Whether 2D or VR - Saving a flight while VR mode is active: Immediately leads to a crash).

  • A very strange phenomenon: If I am currently in flight and then want to jump to another point (e.g. continue directly to the landing approach, etc.), the entire MSFS 2020 does not crash, but after the loading process, my aircraft suddenly races uncontrollably towards the ground with its nose forward in a dive. At the same time, it turns to the right and left just as uncontrollably. Please bear in mind that I am always sitting on a moving platform (DOF Reality P3). You can imagine what it feels like: you are shaken (almost) as violently as in a real plane crash. - The “interesting” thing here is: I always bring my plane to an altitude of at least 5,000 feet first, align it absolutely straight and then activate the autopilot. Of course, that’s exactly how I want to be aligned again during the landing approach. (Apart from the altitude) - I also have the same problem if I climb to at least 10,000 feet before the time jump. The problem occurs every 2nd or 3rd landing/approach.

Unfortunately, I’ve had a new problem with the MSFS for a few days now, because now nothing really works at all: as soon as I sit in the cockpit for a few seconds after loading, it stops. Then everything freezes and I can no longer do anything. After a short time (~30 - 60 seconds), the MSFS 2020 crashes and I end up on the desktop. Regardless of the plane. - I only ever play in VR. However, the problem in question occurs in both 2D and 3D. I sit in the cockpit for a few seconds, but don’t take off yet (I don’t get that far) and then the MSFS 2020 crashes.

I have already tried everything:

  • Reinstalled the MSFS 2020. (4 times or 2 times since the latest problem)

  • Checked the device manager, no warnings.

  • Always installed the latest drivers via Windows Update, for the graphics card and the chipset of course the drivers directly from the manufacturer.

  • Checked temperatures under load, everything in the green range)

  • Closed everything “unnecessary” in the background. (So everything that was running in the background was closed, including Windows Defender)

  • The complete config has already been completely rebuilt twice.

  • I can’t deactivate third-party providers (Community) because I don’t use anything at all.

  • I leave the settings for the swap file to Windows, I haven’t changed anything there. However, I have deleted the file before and then had it recreated when Windows restarted.

  • I have already completely deactivated the rolling cache in MSFS 2020 as a test.

  • Everything else (every application, every other game - with and without VR) runs / runs completely error-free. Even with CPU and GPU benchmarks (simultaneously, not one after the other), I don’t push the PC to its limits. Under full load (= 660 watts), the PC runs absolutely stable. In general, my PC runs very stable and problem-free. Only the MSFS 2020 is and remains a disaster! :-/

  • Checked the status of the SSD and the file system. (Mity Crystal Disk Info & chkdsk). Everything is fine.

  • Repair installation (Inplace Upgrade) of Windows 11 performed.

  • Incidentally, my Steam library and also the MSFS 2020 run on a separate partition (D:)

  • Start Steam and MSFS 2020 with admin rights - following paths:

“C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steam.exe”
“D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\MicrosoftFlightSimulator\FlightSimulator.exe”

First I start Steam as administrator and switch it to VR mode. Then I start MSFS 2020 as administrator.

  • In Windows Defender, I currently have a permanent exception for the following paths

D:\Microsoft Flight Simulator\
D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\MicrosoftFlightSimulator

  • Worked through these troubleshootings:

None of this helps. Honestly, I’m just annoyed! Why does the MSFS 2020 NEVER work without problems? I’m a full-time and part-time IT professional myself and therefore anything but a helpless beginner. But I’m really at the end of my knowledge here. What else can/should I do to get this crap to run stably?

Do you have any ideas?
Greetings & Thanks, Julian.

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I have a very similar PC setup to you and experience CTDs as well. I’ve tried LITERALLY everything like you have as well. It is not something with your PC.

MSFS is just still incredibly unstable. You’ll probably get people replying saying it works great for them - I think we should send them a ribbon and maybe a gift certificate.

I don’t think there’s much we can do other than wait. I’ve probably done 3 fresh Windows installs since MSFS came out and probably 6-7 fresh MSFS installs.

This is just part of running this sim. I have had some intermittent crashes with other games but those were acknowledged by the developer and eventually remedied with updates.

I just accept that I’ll have periods of time when MSFS works well and I can really enjoy it, but, sooner or later, it’s going to go off the rails.

Even if there was something different about our systems, it’s STILL A SIM ISSUE. It’s an Asobo issue. This is a software and should be designed with the idea in mind that there will be many variables at play. This should be accounted for in development by making the app flexible and able to handle different scenarios instead of just completely spazzing out and crashing with zero warning or error messages.

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Meanwhile, for context: FX-6300, GTX1070, 32gb RAM and told every start that my system is under minspec by the game.

Rarely CTD and when I do it’s after a long time of the sim running (8+ hrs) and me entering and exiting flights and messing with dev mode - so, kinda expected really.

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Edit: @CausalZeus42539
I’m very impressed with your level of hardware, especially the DOF.
I have no idea of how to help you.
But agree that you should not have any problems at all.

I run an Intel i5-13600K, Gigabyte Z790 MB, 64 GB DDR5 7200, 1000W PS
Intel A770 LE 16GB GPU.
4K, Ultra, TAA, HDR, DX12, Live Traffic. (T LoD= 400, O LoD=900)
I don’t fly VR.
MS Store.

I fly mostly the Longitude. Usually IFR/ILS.
Have flown flights with the Boeing and Airbus heavies.

No problems.

If I were you, I would purchase an Intel A770 16 GB GPU
to see what it does.

If the problems disappear, then the 4090 is suspect.
If the problems stay, then the PC is suspect.

Do you think the 850 Watt PS is sufficient?

I just can’t understand how a system like yours would have any problem.

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CPU 3770K GPU 1070 no problem

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Have you tried another plane? Like the 152? And see if skipping to approach works?

I think the load and save thing has always been bugged tho. Even if you can save without crashing, it’s unlikely to load without the aircraft doing crazy stuff. At this time I would play with the assumption that you won’t be able to save mid flight.

As for the launch crash. Make sure you have removed everything from the community folder and try again. Just to rule out a rogue addon.

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i suppose your community folder is empty ? i mean really empty.
then re-install windows and use ONLY Drivers which come from MS, not any 3rd party drivers. dont restore from backup. (unpopular opinion i know).
in this scenario MSFS must be stabile and working, this is all we can request and expect from ms.

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This seems to be a very drastic step.

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What does it say in Event Viewer for the times of the CTD’s?

Have you tried with all online functionality turned off? (Bing Data, Photogrammetry, Live traffic, Live weather, Multiplayer).

EDIT:

  • Are you using overclocking profile on your ram?
  • What method are you using to make the 7950X3D use the correct cores? (I have the same CPU and use the motherboard to do that now)
  • Is this with DX11 / 12 or tried both?
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Worth revisiting the stability of your PC, I know you stated other applications don’t crash - however MSFS is very CPU intensive.

Can you run Cinebench multithread test for 10-30mins without any crashes or BSOD?

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Since we have opened a new discussion for this topic: I’ll just came here to tell I have same experiences and have very mixed feelings about the sim. I’ve had every single problem there can be, yet I keep on hearing legends about people who never had a slightest issue in msfs2020. Let me tell you, you’re lucky people (in this sense). You have no idea how annoying it can be when it doesn’t work - I almost forget that too during the couple months my sim works well.

I do love the sim, it’s the most amazing thing I’ve had running on my PC - when it works. At the same time, it’s also the most handful piece of software I’ve ever had. I swear 300h of flight time has required me 100h of forum scrolling and troubleshooting. Never mind the couple times of complete re-install of the software.

This just proofs that being avgeek is like having a sickness. I would’ve abandoned every other game or software a long time ago, yet I keep on pushing more money on msfs add-ons.

EDIT: I reckon that all the problems are not caused by Asobo. Sometimes I have issues also on MS store and Xbox app, or perhaps it’s my PC.

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I think you are probably close to the truth there. It is WINDOWS. I remember now why I moved to Mac for my work and vowed never to use Windows again. It has so many layers of dependencies, rooted in DOS, which MSFS also now lays on top of. So many failure points and seems Microsoft can’t even make their own products and services work 100% on their own OS :smiley:

It’s a mess. But yes when it works it is glorious. Just a shame it’s so fragile and can snap at any point even if it was working perfectly fine on the previous boot and you’ve made ZERO changes to anything since the night before. Very very weird and annoying!

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And an unnecessary one.

@CausalZeus42539 If you are getting crashes this regularly, can you post the contents of the crash log file that the sim creates please? If you don’t know where this is, have a look at this guide:

You can post the contents of that here, and also wrap it in hide details tags so that you don’t have a monstrously long post for those not wanting to view it:

Hidden

Like this

image

You will most likely see multiple copies of this, so only the latest one that is relevant please. I say relevant as the only times I have had the sim crash on me in over a year now are where I have one on the map screen, sometimes caused by clicking on the little green plane icons, or one where you can crash the sim by scrolling through simvars in SPAD too quickly, usually when setting up bindings for a new plane I just purchased.

I’ve not had an inflight crash in probably 15-18 months now.

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Your GPU and CPU are known for being true gas guzzlers.
For a few bucks, there are power meters available which can measure realtime usage.
I’m not sure but 850W might be a bit low under peak load.

Happy :small_airplane:

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That would me my advice as well.
I would reinstall windows and then the sim.
I had a very similar thing, the only time I 've ever had an issue, I had to do just that.
For me, it worked.

If you want to do that, install your updates after you have the sim up and is working Ok, and then install the PMDG.

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I built up a system in PC Part Picker just to get a rough estimate. It’s estimating 764W, and I’m sure that’s low because of extra peripherals I didn’t include. Though usually a weak power supply issue results in a full system crash and reboot, not simply a CTD. A stronger PSU would be recommended in general for this setup even if it isn’t the root cause of the current problem.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/37smh3

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I’ve got a 4090, 12900k, 4 sticks of DDR5, 2x m.2, 3x SSDs, watercooling pump and a case full of fans. It all runs fine on an 850W PSU.

As well as the above there’s all my peripherals, audio, at least two monitors on and VR. The load of everything at the wall is typically ~650W.

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The 650W load at the wall is an average reading of a power meter? The instrument will also measure the picks of power consumptions that may cause these problems?

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Fair point, but I’ve had zero issues with this system other the common ones related to running 4x DIMMs. I’ve even stress tested it by running CPU and GPU at full load simultaneously, something which no game will ever do.

I’ll confess that if I was buying new now I’d go for more capacity, but am convinced that 850W is more than sufficient for anything similar.

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Well, your feed back is positive and quite important in order to evaluate the best PSU to fit there. I also believe that a 1000W PSU is a bit larger than yours and might not fit in all the PCs.

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