OpenXR Toolkit (upscaling, world scale, hand tracking...) - Release thread

[BearsAreCool510]

Thanks again to the amazing creators of this tool, it just keeps getting better!!

This is the first time I’ve been able to run high clouds at 45FPS locked at a good resolution.

Spectacular work!

[FringedChimp823]

black line? see dev post
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/openxr-toolkit-upscaling-world-scale-hand-tracking-release-thread/493924/812?u=fringedchimp823

[SixEyELessOUIja]

Everything you just explain is what I’m experiencing! It is really annoying, I wonder who else is experiencing this and if they have a fix for it.

[GlitteryGecko5]

@FifthBicycle739

Uninstalled the tool and its perfect again.

Don’t mess with it if it’s perfect. Doesn’t get any better than that!
John.

[BearsAreCool510]

I actually made a thread abou it here: VR Performance as of SU8

Most people said they didn’t have it, I think some people simply haven’t noticed it yet though.

[UNVEU8277]

Is there any Tutorial how to use Handtracking Gestic on Quest 2 ???

[Beulah6126]

Just a quick update. I didn’t realize that “shaking reduction” was the new name for prediction dampening. I had it at 40% but were able to get rid of violent shaking in DX12. FFR is clearly working with similar fps gain and even the black line on the outer ring of horizon. At the moment, DX12 is a no go as it’s very unstable. Exiting VR mode causes CTD 100% of the time. So hopefully, Asobo will stabilize the sim with dx12.

[mbucchia]

@BigWizard2204

Switched to dx12 and left options alone with ffr on and now CTD as soon as I switch to vr.

Will turn off ffr later and try dx12 again. Was late and going bed.

Please try with FFR disabled before switching to DX12, then re-enable it. I wonder if the is a bug with settings “carrying over” incorrectly from DX11 to 12.

If you still get a crash, please send us the log file (see troubleshooting page on our site!).

[mbucchia]

@Player416868824

I don’t have any problems, I just reported that I have VRS RTV at 0, for the rest I have no particular settings, OXR 100, game 100, Tool at 100. the sim is fine, I just wanted to understand what this value meant.

It means that the OpenXR Toolkit is not able to make FFR work. But you still have not replied to my question: have you enabled FFR from the menu, and if so what settings did you chose? For me, it simply sound like you have not enabled the feature! (or perhaps it’s not even supported, and you don’t even have the option to enable it!).

[mbucchia]

@gordongreig

Tried FFV too, but was getting the artefacts on the horizon, but actually I’m CPU limited anyway, so this made no appreciable difference as expected

Two things here:

1. Check out tips to reduce the visual artifacs: Fixed Foveated Rendering | OpenXR Toolkit (mbucchia.github.io)

2. If you are CPU limited, you can still benefit from FFR as long as you make your game GPU limited, meaning you have the opportunity to bump up some of the graphics settings, which will at first make you loose some frame rate, but then you turn on FFR and regain your frame rate.

[mbucchia]

@WolframRvnwlf

By the way, the Hand Tracking feature has become my favorite of this release. After tweaking the settings (brilliant of you guys to include such a useful config tool that takes effect on the fly), it feels like a whole new sim! I can fly with my HOTAS, take off a hand from the controls and flick some switches seamlessly, no more searching around for mouse or motion controllers or fighting with the throttle’s imprecise mouse stick. Absolutely amazing to up immersion another level!

Yay! Love to hear this. What devices do you have btw?

[mbucchia]

@Fredvasse

However I can’t get FFR to work. When activated the headset goes black

Can you enable the Experimental mode in the desktop app, then turn on Detailed overlay in the in-game menu. See the value of “VRS RTV” and let me know what that value is.

Thanks.

[mbucchia]

@MarcG888

With FFR on I noticed some black lines in the peripheral vision, at first I kept turning my head towards them and they if course disappeared. Once I got used to then being there they didn’t bother me at all, they seemed to be coming from mountain/hill tops through cloud.

See some suggestions here if you haven’t already: Fixed Foveated Rendering | OpenXR Toolkit (mbucchia.github.io)

@MarcG888

With the detailed FPS readout the CPU was 18,000 (+/- 1000), and the GPU 21,000 (+/- 1000). No idea if that’s good or not…!

This is a pretty good spot! This means you are maxing out both your CPU and GPU (with a little headroom on CPU which is a good thing).

[mbucchia]

@HyperJet2018

@mbucchia: Do you think this behaviour is some Bug of OpenXR Motion Repro? You wrote somewhere about the algorithm which finds out to what frame rate to lock (22.5, 30, 45) and i think this could be triggered to be reset when pressing CTRL-ALT-DEL. Because before doing this workaround i get just some 5-15fps (with very low GPU utilization) and after this workaround it is perfectly above 22.5. Perhaps this also has something to do with the WMR-Cliffhouse triangle animation when switching to VR? It could be that this animation leads to frames of MSFS which can not displayed and MSFS or OpenXR keeps trying to render old frames and does not discard them?

The algorithm that select the frame rate as a “finite length” and not permanent state, so I don’t think that is the problem. It means that this algorithm is constantly “moving forward” and therefore even if a bad state was introduced, it would clear itself after a few seconds.

Are you sure you meant Ctrl-Alt-Del!? Not Ctrl-Tab?

Can you do me a favor and try the following (assuming you can reproduce often).

1. Run with the Overlay enabled in the OpenXR Tools for WMR. This will display a little blue square with numbers in your left eye

2. When the issue happens, capture the values in this overlay. (NOTE: You can set WMR to “Quality” mode in the Windows settings in order to be able to use the “Preview” mode of the Mixed Reality Portal, and take a screenshot of that!)

3. Do your manipulation to change scale, restart VR etc get back to a good state.

4. Repeat step 2) to capture the overlay.

Thanks.

[mbucchia]

@FifthBicycle739

Another thing, I know that MR is either 30 or 23 fps (and some other numbers) why does the tool state 1/3, 1/4 etc. that means absolutely nothing to me […] Is this some sort of geeks forum I shouldn’t really be on, like car forums when they impress each other by calling a 3 series an E46 or whatever it is.

Can’t help you here.

There’s a good reason we are showing 1/half, 1/third and 1/quarter.

This tool is implemented OUTSIDE of the game and OUTSIDE of the OS. This means we don’t have access to everything we want. If you look at your WMR settings on Windows, you have two modes you can select: 60 Hz and 90 Hz. The value we wish to show in the “Lock motion reprojection” is a function of this 60 / 90 setting, eg:

• 15, 20, 30
• 22.5, 30, 45

However, because we implement this OUTSIDE of the OS (and we have no choice), we don’t have access to this information. So we cannot guess whether you chose 60 or 90. So what are we supposed to display? Should we assume you selected 90, and if you did select 60 then you will see the wrong value displayed? So instead we ask you to either 1) make a division by 2, 3 or 4, which hopefully is not too much of a geek skill to have 2) just try the different values and see how they feel! No understanding needed!

This is also explained here: Other | OpenXR Toolkit (mbucchia.github.io). We spend a lot of time writing documentation, fortunately most users seem to read it, and they have no problems. But I’m also happy to further update the documentation, if the wording is not clear.

PS: If some of the WMR hackers are out there and they know if there is a regkey or something to read whether 60 or 90 is selected, ping me and we can try to make use of it.

[woalas]

ouch I come to try the new tools bah gg the team legend vr mbucchia it deserves remuneration and points of interest in the sim gg to all of you !!! boujou de normandy!!

[mbucchia]

@FifthBicycle739

I know you don’t want to hear this but its exactly the same problems for me with the stuttering. Game has played absolutely fine without this tool for the last few days but as soon as I installed it within seconds the horendous frame drop is there again. Start in 2D and then enable VR once its on the runway and the game is unplayable. Start in VR, got to 2D and then back to VR and the frames drop. Start in VR and fly over some complicated scenery and the frames drop. Every time you have to quit the game and restart it to get the frames back.

Uninstalled the tool and its perfect again. Don’t forget this is on a totally stock, newly formatted machine with absolutely no settings changed or other programs installed.

We’ve looked a this together before (and you sent me some data from your performance overlay), and the observations were as follows:

• The overhead of the OpenXR Toolkit was well under 2ms/frame, which is the same range that we’ve observed ourselves and with many other users. No issue there.

• Your App GPU timing is the value that was jumping up and down. As the name indicates, this is the workload from the App, meaning FS2020. We have no real control over that. The App GPU is a function of:

  • Your resolution (which you can tweak with upscaling indeed, but it does not change dynamically, so there is “fluctuating” here)
  • Your game level of details / graphic options, we have 0 control over that
  • I will not talk about the impact of the Fixed Foveated Rendering since you have been having the issue without it anyway.

It’s really not clear what in the OpenXR Toolkit could affect the App GPU in the middle of the experience.

However, I am getting more and more confused by the very poor problem descriptions you keep giving and your constant going back on your very own statements:

1. Back two weeks ago, you described it as happening randomly in the middle of flight
2. Today, you claim that it happens as soon as you enter VR

So which one is it?

1. Back two weeks ago you claimed that “my problem of dropped framerates is definitely nothing to do with the NIS tool”, and “no other programs installed apart from what comes with windows”.
2. Today, you claim that uninstalling it magically solves the problem.

So which one is it?

I’m at the point where I cannot help you, you have produced evidence (the overlay numbers) showing that the OpenXR Toolkit works as intended, and you have confused everyone with your nearly daily change of minds as to what works and what does not work.

On top of that, many of your messages are written with a negative tone, and I honestly have no interest in helping you anymore.

I will give you one more link to check out, as I believe this has helped many people already:

My 2070 SUPER VR settings and suggestions (Index - SteamVR)

Thank you for sharing your tests and results. I’ve been doing some more flying yesterday with the A320 over EDDF in trying to spot whether there would be something else to tackle. I’ve for example disabled PostProcess > Sharpen to see whether I’d gain more fps if everything is set to 100% (TAA + SS). It is marginally giving a little more and this was more noticeable to me when trying TAA70+SS150 where, although a little more blurry, it appeared smoother sometimes. During the A320 @ EDDF test …

However, I am afraid that the technical level on that other thread is too much for you based on your previous statements.

I will quote another reply you got today:

@GlitteryGecko5

Don’t mess with it if it’s perfect. Doesn’t get any better than that!

EDIT: To be clear, this reply isn’t about “you don’t want to hear this”. You can go check the history of his thread, and several individuals have either 1) reported issues and after some back and forth we resolved them and 2) reported they did not like the tool and uninstalled it. We’ve listened every time. In the end, my goal is here to make people happy with the game, and I think my team and I have done just that, regardless of whether you choose or not to use the tool. The real issue I have here is with the tone in several of your messages (including that one, and the whole “computer genius” thing, only to cite a few).

[notsofearless]

@mbucchia

if there is a regkey or something to read whether 60 or 90 is selected, ping me and we can try to make use of it.

I think the WMR UI sets this for the display rate? (On a phone, not at my computer, so sorry as I’ve not verified it, but remember seeing it before). 0 for 90, 1 for 60.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Holographic\DisplayThrottling

[mbucchia]

Amazing, I just tried it and it looks like you are correct! Thank you!

Will do some experimenting for the next version, but this looks extremely promising!

[SixEyELessOUIja]

Lol, I’m shocked that people haven’t noticed it! I’m going to upgrade my 5600x to a 5950x to see if this helps my problem.