PA-28R Arrow III from Just Flight

With the help of the Working Title team we have finally found a solution to the GNS compatibility issues that were holding up the release of our updates for the PA28s (Arrow III, Turbo Arrow III/IV and Warrior II). We’re now finishing off some final bits of work on those with the aim of releasing them next week.

Thanks again for your patience with these updates.

Martyn - Just Flight

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Does the update include the flight model fix?

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We’re still aiming to release the update this week:

  • Latest TDS GTNXi models/textures added
  • Compatibility with latest versions of Working Title GNS, PMS-50 GTN and TDS GTNXi (including new autopilot logic)
  • EFB functionality upgrades:
    • Import your SimBrief flight and view a summary or scrollable full OFP
    • Monitor your position in real time using a map view with tracking, zoom and pan options
    • Explore and view your Navigraph charts, with automatic selection of departure and arrival airports based on your SimBrief OFP, and ability to favourite charts for quick reference
    • Use a notepad for making notes during the flight, particularly useful for noting down clearances and taxi instructions
    • Interactive checklists, in addition to the existing MSFS checklist support
    • A top-of-descent calculator with the option to manually input altitudes, speeds and descent requirements or to have those sync’d from the sim
    • An on-screen/virtual keyboard, especially useful for VR users
    • METARs for your SimBrief OFP departure, arrival and alternate airports
  • Animations and cockpit interactions updated for compatibility with LOCK interaction mode and Xbox
  • Flight model updates (greater pitch stability and better ground handling)
  • Trim sensitivity slider added to EFB, allowing you to fine tune the sensitivity of the pitch trim
  • Improved spark plug fouling simulation
  • Vertical speed hold hidden clickspot added to autopilot panel - with altitude hold engaged, clicking on the vertical speed clickspot will engage vertical speed hold mode, holding the vertical speed that existed at the point of engagement
  • Dynamic baggage added - a variety of baggage will appear in the baggage compartment, depending on the selected payload weight
  • Smoother cockpit pushbutton animations
  • GNS 530/430 screens resized to prevent edge clipping
  • Support added for SET ELECTRICAL FUEL PUMP 1 control assignment
  • Throttle quadrant cursor icons (hand/grab) updated to make it easier to see when your cursor is moving between levers
  • Touchdown sounds fixed

Martyn - Just Flight

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This is fantastic news and very comprehensive release notes!

As someone who flies mainly in VR, are the Navigraph Charts on the EFB compatible with V8 of the Navigraph Charts App? Looking forward to this update.

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Thanks team, we really need this!.

Great updates.

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Amazing update! Can’t wait for this one to come out. The flight model updates and added EFB functionality sound fantastic! Especially as a VR user. I use the ingamepanels all-in-one tablet for much of the described functionality today, and it works great! But, with the limited space in the Arrow’s cockpit, having the ability to view SimBrief information, Navigraph charts and also have a notepad for writing clearances built in to the Arrow’s EFB is a great enhancement!!

Thank you!

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anybody know how long it will take for the update to be available from simmarket? I have just seen I ordered the turbo arrow at simmarket… oh nooooooooo

Simmarket isn’t usually too slow at posting as soon as they receive. It’s not the Marketplace :roll_eyes:

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good to hear, yea I am glad I didnt get it from the marketplace, the big update for the Islander was like 6 months later…

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That’s a nice looking update - fixes, improvements and new functionality. Will the new dynamic baggage match the aged condition of the aircraft interior, sort of like it’s been kicked along the floor all the way to the plane after being left in the rain overnight?

I would love to request for the Turbo Arrow that you consult with the Black Square dev and get proper turboprop simulation working. I hate adjusting the mixture in the climb in that plane, it takes me right out of the experience.

None of the PA28 family are turboprops. A turboprop is a propellor driven by a jet turbine. The PA28 family are normally aspirated engines with a turbo, not jets!

You should absolutely need to adjust the mixture when flying them.

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A turbo engine is not really normally aspirated, just the opposite. It is a reciprocating or piston engine. Because of the turbocharging you should not need to add power during climb untill you reach the critical altitude.

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The Black Square Bonanza Turbo is “turbo normalized”, which keeps the engine at the same HP as if it were at sea level, all the way up to critical altitude, which means you keep it full rich all the way through the climb, even at high altitudes.

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I meant to say turbo charger. The turbo Arrow should not require leaning during a climb.

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Unless the POH says otherwise, the biggest reason for controlling mixture in a turbocharged/turbonormalized aircraft below the critical altitude is to regulate engine cooling. That compressed intake air is going to be a bit hot relative to the gradually cooling air it would normally be taking in as you climb (even with an intercooler), thus it will be somewhat leaner due to temps.

But overall, in general, it should not be done as you would an NA engine.

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Have a read of this.

As I’ve linked to it hopefully I can quote the relevant paragraph here;

Climb performance of the Turbo Arrow is good, with 1,000 feet per minute available right up to 10,000 feet or so, and with 72 gallons of fuel aboard, endurance is excellent. Count on 4.5 hours with an hour’s reserve at 75 percent; though the book says fuel flow at this setting should be 12 gal- lons per hour, this is based upon leaning to peak turbine inlet temperature, which few unmodified engines tolerate well. More conservative leaning proce- dures, like limiting TIT to 1,500 degrees F, well below the 1,650 degree F redline, result in about 13 gph at high cruise. Pull the power back to 65 percent, and you can lean a bit more aggressively, which will get you close to the book’s estimate of 10.8 gph.

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That paragraph is talking about leaning for cruise performance / efficiency. The other commenters appear to be talking about leaning during climb.

In a naturally aspirated engine as you climb the MP drops and at some point the mixture at full rich will be too rich and engine performance will suffer and you need to lean while climbing to maintain proper engine power.

In a turbocharged engine you can keep the MP high all the way up to the critical altitude so you should keep the mixture full rich during the climb. Due to how MSFS handles turbochargers however this isn’t the case with the turbo arrow and you need to manually keep pulling the mixture back even though the MP is still high.

I have been using this mod which corrects this behaviour so even though the position of the mixture lever in the virtual cockpit (in the sim) is wrong, at least it is correct in real life on my controller and I don’t have to keep pulling it back in the climb:

I don’t know if it will help but I thought I would use your example of leaning in the cruise to explain the situation better… Say you are at 6,000ft cruising with the MP at 26" and prop at 2500rpm (55% power), and you want to want to lean to peak EGT for best economy (as per the POH). You would find a specific spot where your mixture lever should be to get peak EGT at that altitude and power setting.

Now climb up to 12,000ft and set up the same cruise power (26" and 2500rpm). The exact same spot on your mixture lever SHOULD give you peak EGT, but in MSFS it doesn’t. Since the turbocharged engines aren’t simulated correctly you will need to pull the lever back much further to get peak EGT. With the add-on I linked above your mixture lever should be in the same spot as it was at 6,000ft but if you look at the lever in the sim the lever will show as much further back.

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A quick message to say that we’ll be finishing off release candidate testing over the weekend, ahead of a release of the PA28 Arrow III, Turbo Arrow III/IV and Warrior II updates next week.

The updates will also be sent to the MS Marketplace team for processing, both for PC and Xbox.

Martyn - Just Flight

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Thanks for the update! Can’t wait! (But will wait :rofl: )

Good luck with the RC and testing. Will be using the Arrow in VR first thing as soon as the update releases!

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