Pitch trim axis reversal when using peripheral trim wheels

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Are you using Developer Mode or made changes in it?
No

Have you disabled/removed all your mods and addons?
No

Brief description of the issue:
I know iniBuilds left in trim as a convenience to simmers who want to fly hands off (thank you!); however, it seems the trim axis is reversed with forward on my VelocityOne trim wheel leading to nose up while toward produces nose down (don’t have the axis reversed on my end in the controller setup)

Provide Screenshot(s)/video(s) of the issue encountered:
I would but it’s real hard on the Xbox to upload images / vids.

Detailed steps to reproduce the issue encountered:
Test trim axis in flight.

PC specs and/or peripheral set up if relevant:
VelocityOne Flight with rudder pedals and mouse.

Build Version # when you first started experiencing this issue:
I’m flying the Jenny for the first time post-WU13; it’s probably been there for awhile.

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Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

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Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?

No

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:

I don’t have a trim wheel, I have a Thrustmaster hotas one on xbox x. I have trim up and trim down buttons mapped instead. I’ve just tested the Jenny with this and vertical trim is working normally for me, not reversed.

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

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Thanks for checking using the Thrustmaster HOTAS on Series X. I wanted to make sure I didn’t misreport so did more testing this morning during the 2hr flight from KDCA to KPNE as part of the 40th Anniversary First U.S. Air Mail activity.

Definitely still had reversed trim using the VelocityOne wheel (it corrected when I clicked the reverse axis option in controller setup). Since the V1F has some internal readouts, this is what I got:

JN-4 Jenny: Physical wheel trim nose up input → Correct positive axis deflection in the V1F training mode display → INCORRECT nose down (minus pitch degrees) reading in the game HUD → physical nose down motion of the aircraft

With the same options in the C172: Physical wheel nose up input → Correct positive axis deflection in V1F training mode display → CORRECT nose up (positive pitch degrees) reading in the game HUD → physical nose up motion of the aircraft

Maybe someone with another V1F can check and weigh in. Or even a Honeycomb. If it’s unique to this peripheral, then I can submit a ticket to them. Interestingly, there is a separate known bug with the trim input post-SU12 on the V1F that causes sporadic uncommanded full nose down trim. Really sucks when it happens to you on short final…

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K, checked the trim behavior using Xbox gamepad RB + Right thumbstick, and trim is correct for both the Jenny and C152. Strangely, the V1F trim wheel is correct for C152 but not Jenny, but final verdict is that the issue may be unique to the V1F trim wheel axis, so I will try to report that to TurtleBeach support. Wacky.

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Did some more sampling and investigation. In addition to the Jenny, the pitch trim is reversed when using the peripheral trim wheel axis on the following planes in my hangar:

Junkers Ju-52 (Microsoft / Oliver Moser)
Savoia-Marchetti S.55 (Microsoft / Mike Johnson)
Progressive Aerodyne SeaRey (FlightSim Studios Ag)

I also purchased the Dornier Wal and Junkers F13 by Oliver Moser but haven’t installed those yet to check if they are also affected. However, I did reach out to Mike Johnson since he has been so responsive in supporting the S.55, and he confirmed this behavior with a great technical explanation through DM, reproduced with permission below:

Yes, this is a known issue with trim wheels and unfortunately I don’t think this is something I can fix. I spent days and days trying though.

The full explanation is a long one, but basically it comes down to a bug deep in the sim’s screen space and drag direction code. If a control is roughly in front of you in the cockpit everything works fine, but when something is placed quite low down, on the floor etc, and almost directly under the camera (like the S.55’s trim handle) the sim can get confused about what is “up” and “down” when dragging. It sees such motions as both forward and back as well as up and down.

Basically it came down to either having trim wheels increment in reverse, or having VR controller and Xbox controller drag not work at all (they would jitter like crazy or just not function). Unfortunately the trim wheel controllers had to lose this one. There was just no way to reconcile them all.

The list of control schemes that have to work on a single lever and share the same code like that are kind of insane. In this case it had to work for: mouse drag, mouse wheel, xbox hold and increment, xbox hold and drag, VR controller hold and drag, and VR controller hold and increment.

I have reported this bug long ago, but I think it’s pretty far down the list for Asobo. I haven’t checked out the other aircraft you mentioned, but I’m guessing they ran into the same issue. If you have FSUIPC or a similar control injector perhaps you could reverse your trim wheel output. I know FSUIPC can do this on a per aircraft basis.

I’m on Xbox so can’t reverse the pitch trim axis on a per plane basis using FSUIPC. If this bug is as deep and unaddressable as the “horizon line visible through mountains” issue, then perhaps Asobo can at least allow us to set and save the reversed-or-not-reversed axes states for individual aircraft (hopefully camera settings as well) in FS2024?

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A similar bug report has been created for the JU-52:

ColoPrep: since the rule is 1 bug per topic\aircraft, I would recommend to create a similar one for the Savoia-Marchetti S.55 since it is part of MS released aircraft.

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The problem is now present on half the planes of 2024 standard edition

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Here is the plane list from MSFS 2024 where, if you use trim on an axis and not up/down buttons or encoders, you’ll have the axis inverted :

  • Edge540 v3
  • DG-1001-e
  • C400 Corvalis
  • MXS-R
  • L39 Albatros
  • DHC-6-300
  • CGS Hawk Arrow II
  • Extra 330
  • ES30
  • AT802
  • FA18E
  • Curtis JN-4 Jenny
  • Draco X
  • DA62
  • Cirrus SR22T
  • CL415
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Ruh roh. Is there a way to selectively invert the axis in aircraft-specific controls (haven’t dug into the sim much since it’s not really ready for prime time right now)?

Also don’t forget to upvote the bug since I don’t think it’s been officially captured yet!

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I don’t think this is the correct approach to mitigate with specific settings.

We already had the exact same problem with SU5. Most of the planes were corrected in the months (years) that followed. Some are still broken.