It’s still so wierd how people have twitchy trim rsponse in some aircraft ( the JF aircraft are another set I’ve seen complaints about ) and others like me have no problems at all - there has to be some root cause we should probably collectively think through sometime.
Agreed VanDisaster. I read the discussion in the 310 vs 414 thread and one sim pilots trim issue was double binding for trim. Also, could hardware play a factor?
I use the Turtle Beach V1 yoke and I have noticed after the AP gets turned off, the first time I use the trim wheel the plane will go violently nose down until I move the wheel a couple times (like it went to sleep or something) then it evens out. This happens in most planes I fly, I am ready for it now but finding a root cause would be great.
It’s very likely due to the interaction of the AP and the Trim wheel, especially if you have an axis controlling the trim, but, it might also get out of sync if you use buttons. Essentially, the AP controls the pitch attitude of the plane, and may even go so far as turn off the trim under the covers. Then, when you turn it off, who knows where the trim might be, as has happened, Asobo may not initialize the position of the trim so it’s possible it’s stuck at zero until you move it.
Does that yoke have a trim wheel with absolute positioning? I can see that getting very out of shape as the AP changes trim without physically moving the trim wheel. I use beep trim on my stick, which is obviously relative to the current trim position.
I really love this bird. She’s my go to gal, whenever I launch MSFS. Just finished a short hop from KGCN to KPHX. I usually fly out of KIWA as my home base. Was getting lonely just listening to the AFE, so I had to add my co-pilot. She tags along all the time now, I don’t notice any sort of a perf hit, (I only fly VR with my G2).
Getting ready soon to fly to KLAS… 
Yep, was on an axis so yeah that makes sense.
Just noticed these - the mod B18 needs a ton of work to fix it’s handling ( the systems on the other hand are great ) - just fly it into some rough air & it’ll kill your immersion trying to deal with it, and the Goose has suffered a lot - it’s now really really stiff in the way a 30s twin really isn’t ( which is a lot of the issues with the Beech too - there is a lot of footage around to fix up the B18, not so much the Goose ).. The DC-6 hasn’t really lost anything flight wise, it’s actually one of the few aircraft I haven’t felt the need to mess with. Twitchy pitch trim seems to be something related to controls & the game core - it kinda has to be if it’s not the same for everyone.
Indeed. This seems like a logical conclusion after both seeing and reading about trim behavior with multiple planes in the sim.
So, that’s an interesting thought. I haven’t done any AP development, or any aircraft controls development for that matter. But, it seems to me, given the immediate dive thing that happens to people (not me, but I only very rarely use the AP), it sounds like trim is starting at 0 for a lot of people when they turn off the AP, so, the question becomes… why?
Are they not adjusting trim before takeoff? This is a MUST! I know, however, that a lot of simmers have no idea how important trim is. It may even play into the twitchiness people claim to experience, that they’re trying to overcome a poorly set trim state through yoke control, rather than trimming the plane, and then not even bothering to use the yoke for pitch, because… why? Shouldn’t need to. Especially when turning off AP, there shouldn’t be any reason to control pitch except to retrim to a happy place since hopefully you’re in a nice pleasant control space at that moment when you turn it off…
Is AP control logic setting trim to 0? That would be a typical programmer reaction when they think “Well, I don’t know what it should be, so I’ll just set it to 0”, I would think 50% would be a much better, slightly less wrong most likely. Even better, remember what it was at when AP was turned on, and reset it to that. Of course, that requires it to have been properly trimmed when the AP was turned on, which isn’t necessarily a good decision either. So, even better, turning off trim could attempt to retrim the plane before it actually gives up control into whatever flight state it’s in when it’s turned off. I’d have to really think through all the consequences, but, seems like there should be an answer.
Either way, make sure you’ve properly set up trim before you turn on the AP and see if that helps get rid of the “death dive” upon turning off AP.
Lots of good points here. I normally do stay on top of my trimming, love to trim with that trim wheel on the v1, feels great to me when I’m at altitude and she is flying steady all trimmed up with hands off yoke.
Yesterday when flying the 414 (I know diff thread) I wanted to test the AP\trim nose dive issue, so when I was ready to turn off AP I watched the trim wheel in the cockpit and sure enough it moved very quickly nose down just for a split second after I moved the trim wheel on the v1 a very small amount, like a millimeter.
Almost like there is a ‘sleep’ delay or a delay of some kind that keeps the trim from knowing where its at for that split second. For testing, I may dig out my other hardware I used before the V1, its the hotas thrustmaster stick and throttle.
Yes I agree. I have seen enough comments about trim behavior to understand that is doesn’t work the same for everyone unfortunately. It’s frustration on my part because I otherwise absolutely love the DC-6 and I really enjoy hand flying it. I really need to devote some time to trying more adjustments in AAO in order to dampen the response inputs.
Yes, it does. Or at least, the sim treats it as if it does, even though the pitch wheel has free rotation without stops. If you look in the Controls options and go to the Sensitivity settings, you can see. So in the DC-6 and several other planes, as soon as you touch the trim wheel, the plane reads the absolute position and if you’re not in the general take-off range to start with, you will end up wildly out of control.
I”ve since created a custom DC-6 controls pre-set and removed the pitch trim binding from the wheel, and reverted to using one of the yoke hat switches for trim up/down inputs instead. The pitch wheel works wonderfully for some planes but not for the DC-6.
It’s not a sleep delay. MSFS does not read the position of controller controls until they are moved. So, by moving the controller, you’re initializing its position.
That’s why animations are out of sync at the start for some planes, and they don’t get in sync until you move them. I don’t know the technical reasons for this, it might be a very good reason.
For my trim wheel I use different trim values for different aircraft. The C172 just needs low changes with each tick of the trim wheel, the DC-3 needs much larger changes.
I also have bound two buttons which trim 10 times of the value of the trim wheel at each single press, because there are situations when you need large trim changes fast.
And then, if things go wrong and the trim is way up or down (which happens sometimes for some reason) I have a button which centers the trim.
This works fine for me.
@kaha300d Planning ahead…great idea in this bird. She is a beast if you get “behind” in the cockpit.
Yeah, I can’t use button presses for trim… I prefer an axis.
But that sounds like a good way to get button presses working.
How do you “use different trim values for different aircraft”?
On my Logitech ExtremePro3D, the throttle axis is an analog axis, so it’s always what it is, as opposed to the digital encoder axis of the Bravo, which has no real center per se, at least to my understanding. The problem with the Logi throttle is it has pretty limited throw, so I have to make very fine adjustments. But at least I can. With button presses, I never can find that “exact” point I want.
I use FSUIPC. Here is how I do it:
where did you get a Navy R6D to fly in the simulator?
