Sim Skunk Works Leonardo (SIAI Marchetti) SF-260 AM

Never Legacy. But one day it sorted itself out, without me consciously changing anything. Perhaps a force feedback software issue.

1 Like

2024 & the SF-260.

Took a little bit for them to show up, but all of my Marketplace planes are available for me to fly in 2024. First one I took up was, of course, my favorite plane in 2020, the SF-260.

It flies great. Ground handling is still sorta sketchy, but maybe a little better?

Spawns onto the runway with the canopy open. No big deal.

What is a bigger deal are the muddy, blurry gauges. Not all of them, but a goodly amount. I mostly fly this plane by looking out the windscreen so it doesnā€™t bother me much, but I know there are people whoā€™d have a coronary seeing them.

There are also some sound issues. Thereā€™s basically no sound in the external view. And I got some wonkyness inside as well.

While Iā€™m happy that I can continue to enjoy it in its 2020 state, I do hope this sees a 2024 upgrade sooner rather than later.

1 Like

Hello,
Unfortunately, the promise of compatibility with 2020 has not been fulfilled to 100%.
There are many incompatibility problems.
We have therefore decided to develop the SIAI (now Aermacchi) 260 natively, also using the new features of 2024.
Weā€™re working on it.
/SSW

5 Likes

Will this be as an update or will it be something that will need to be repurchased for FS2024?

1 Like

Update: The blurry gauges seems to be an occasional texture loading thing as when I flew the SF-260 tonight, it started out with sharp and clear gauges. They blurred for a second once when I switched from external to internal camera, but stayed clear throughout the entire rest of the flight including multiple camera switches.

Still started on the runway with the canopy open and no sounds in external view though. Those, unfortunately, arenā€™t just loading issues. :slight_smile: Neither of those bother me though. I can close the canopy and I very rarely fly in external view anyways. :slight_smile:

Iā€™m looking forward to a full 2024 version, but Iā€™ll happily fly this until then. :slight_smile:

As these are different platforms and since it will require a considerable amount of working time, it will have to be repurchased at the same price of 2020.
/SSW

3 Likes

Wow. Yikes. Totally understand itā€™s a ton of work and you should be paid for it, but you are the only dev Iā€™ve heard say will charge full price for an upgrade for 2020 purchasers.

Maybe calculate how much money youā€™d make if 50% of your 2020 purchasers buy for $5-$7-$10, vs 5% or less of your 2020 purchasers paying full price for an upgrade. You wonā€™t lose a dime on new customers by showing existing customers appreciation.

Because there is zero chance Iā€™m paying the same price as a new customer for a 2024 version, and Iā€™m relatively certain 90%+of your current loyal customers are going to feel the same way. Also consider the amount of customer loyalty youā€™ll lose and the number of annoyed FS2020 customers who wonā€™t buy other brand new aircraft you release for FS2024 after that treatment.

I know itā€™s going to take you a long time to bring these up to 2024 standards, so hopefully yā€™all will think this through and realize youā€™ll make more money by acknowledging the support youā€™ve gotten existing customers than you will be charging them the same as a brand new buyer.

If you donā€™t believe a customer here (and one who has worked in online digital retail for over a decade), then talk to your friends at other companies. A full-price upgrade policy will not net you more money, it will lose you most of your existing customer base.

ā€”

To put it simply, if thereā€™s a reasonable upgrade path for FS2024, Iā€™ll upgrade all of your planes, and buy your F-84 when it comes out. If itā€™s a bit pricier, Iā€™ll probably just upgrade the F-104 and not the others, and Iā€™ll still buy the F-84. If itā€™s full price, I donā€™t upgrade anything, and I donā€™t buy the F-84.

Assuming $25 for your FS2024 F-84:

  • $5 upgrades: $20+25 = $45 (plus more $ for whatever comes after F-84)
  • $10 upgrades: $10+25 =$35 (plus more $ for whatever comes after F-84)
  • $20-30 upgrades: $0 (and no future purchases)
5 Likes

Bad decision mate. Still waiting for this to handle OK on the ground and that fix has not been forthcoming as promised. No way I will be paying again for the same thing. I donā€™t even fly it now because of how terrible it feels on the ground. You need to rethink your approach here as it is such a stark contrast to other developers.

8 Likes

I also agree with this. I had already lost access to the reinstallation of my purchases on P3D at the time. I will do without SimSkunk Works supplements in the future if I have to go back to the checkout.

Your complaints are understandable, but consider how many hours of work of various people are needed and how many models need to be sold to even out the costs, also consider that we are one of the least expensive software houses on the market with the same complexity of models. However, we promise to think about a possible discount for those who have already taken the models for 2020, even if it will not be easy for distributors to make the differences between old and new users.
/SSW

I appreciate you considering customer feedback here! I realize there are significant costs involved, but as outlined above, you will very likely make a lot more money overall from a small upgrade fee than you would from making customers re-purchase the planes. (And thatā€™s based on my experience in digital retail, not just guessing.)

Microsoft has a discounted upgrade process for FS2024, and I know SimMarket has a system for allowing discounts for existing customers. Iā€™m sure that the other retailers will follow suit with a way to offer discounted upgrades, as so far every single other developer who has discussed FS2024 updates has stated they will offer discounted (or free) FS2024 updates for 2020 customers.

I like the planes you choose to simulate and would love to see yā€™all thrive in the FS2024 market. Again, I appreciate you reconsidering this stance.

1 Like

I flew with the real SF-260, did record the flights and made the files accessable for free for you to grab soundsā€¦

i am disappointed, oh wellā€¦

Iā€™ve got a couple hundred hours in the 2020 version. Thatā€™s about 16 cents an hour. You wanna charge me another $32 for an updated 2024 version, go right ahead. Iā€™m an adult with a job that pays me adult money and for whom 16 cents an hour is on the lowest end of the scale for what my hobbies cost me.

2 Likes

Thanks,
we already have the sampled sounds in a suitable environment (source Italian Air Force), however it is not possible to have the identical sounds to the real one, what we can get is a good compromise, we are aware of not being able to satisfy 100% of our users, we are sorry

Without being able to promise anything we will try to have an upgrade process discounted by our distributors, but consider that 20 bucks is already a favorable price considering quality/ price compared to the average market prices.

1 Like

I definitely donā€™t envy SSWā€™s position in this. Because there really are no good options here.

I would never tell SSW to work for free. Even in Soviet Russia, people got paid for their labor. And I imagine a proper 2024 version requires a bit of work to get everything up to standards.

That said: Iā€™ve been a longtime customer. I own the TRF-104, TF104, G-91 and the SF-260. Iā€™ve purchased all of them at launch, for full price. I really enjoy flying them.

But if I needed to pay anything close to full price to effectively re-buy them, Iā€™d spend that money elsewhere. And Iā€™m now seriously reconsidering future SSW purchases as well because of this stance. Iā€™d be fine with a 5-10 euro upgrade price, but anything over that is a no go for me.

From a business standpoint, Iā€™d also consider that free upgrades are a good way to keep customers loyal. It shows youā€™re commited to keeping your birds flying. Sure, you might not get paid for that work right away - just like you donā€™t get paid for other updates - but it will keep people happy. Happy customers buy aircraft.

Looking even further down the timeline, when FS2024 is close to getting replacedā€¦ do you think Iā€™d buy a new aircraft then? Knowing that Iā€™d likely end up paying for another upgrade? I would not.

For me, it really comes down to this: if you add enough value to justify a reasonable update price, Iā€™m happily paying that for the aircraft I want to transfer. But if youā€™re considering charging anything beyond 10 euros, well, consider this my farewell letter as a customer.

1 Like

The issue theyā€™re going to run into is how to offer the discount if people didnā€™t purchase from the Marketplace or directly from them. I donā€™t know if places like JustFlight and Simmarket support upgrade pricing.

Keep in mind that SSW has now said theyā€™ll look at the upgrade situation, so thatā€™s great!

As for ā€œhow to offer the discount,ā€ SimMarket supports upgrade pricing. Most recently I got a discount for Bijanā€™s new seasons product because I bought the original, and Iā€™ve also paid for upgrades for other products from them over time. Just Flight does as well; I got a discount on the Warrior II after buying the Turbo Arrow, for instance. So does OrbX. And MS Marketplace has stated they have support for upgrade pricing in 2024.

And since literally every other MSFS 2020 publisher who has announced an upgrade plan has said they will offer discounted (or for recent releases, free) upgrades, you can be certain all of the digital retailers will support this. This part is a non-issue.

And again, itā€™s not about not paying SSW for their work. The amount of actual money that SSW would make from a discounted upgrade is almost certainly significantly more than theyā€™d get if they forced customers to buy a whole new product. Weā€™re not trying to stop them from earning cash from their hard work, weā€™re trying to stop them from making a business decision that was perhaps not fully thought out.

1 Like

Hi, Just to understand better, the new version with modern avionics and autopilot that was promised for MSFS2020 wonā€™t be released and all next development will be on the FS2024 model. Is that right ?
Hope my understanding of English is broken so badly that I have misinterpreted your message here buddy.

Hello,
Just to clarify:

  • Enhanced aircraft (EA) version with modern avionics will be released for MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024
  • the AM version already published for 2020 will be released soon for MSFS 2024, probably at a discounted price as an upgrade for users of MSFS 2020 who have already bought it, at full price (20 euros) for new users.
  • the EA version will be released later for MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024 as free upgrade.
    /SSW

Update:
we are considering 23.99 $ full price and 15.99 $ as a discounted upgrade price.
We would like have your opinion.
Thanks

8 Likes