Stutter before touchdown.. anywhere from 300ft to the moment of touchdown

there is something loading in MSFS that is causing the darn stutter just moments before touchdown. I am pretty sure it has to do with LOD of something loading.

Say if I arrive at my destination airport I am likely to experience the stutter somewhere below 200 ft AGL.. however doing a replay of landing there will not be a stutter because something has already loaded.
“doing a replay of landing - landing again from recording” meaning:
1 start replay… once started you
2 stop replay and go back to manual control
3 land yourself again..

If I just replay the landing and watch it, the stutter gets recorder and it can be seen in fluidity of recording.

Asobo Look what is loading !! There are some airports that it will not happen and it can be sometimes resolved by flying a drone over airport “pre-loading it of sort”.
It is 1 maybe 2 stutters.. then super performance, but it really ruins the landing for many. Removing FX files doesn’t really help, lower setting do nothing, turn off reflections no difference.

Just FYI have a very good PC so it’s not the hardware problem.

Most recent it happened to me in LGAV… but then doing replay and retry of landing as i explained above .. and turning it off landing manually myself again, there was no stutter, and I landed manually after that probably 4 more times… smooth every other time… so it is the fact that sim is loading something .. ??? LODs ???

I will add that if i choose to “go around” at the second try there will not be any stutter.

Lastly I fly A320 FBW, 737 these kind of bigger more complex jets you might not notice it in Cessna’s and little more simple aircraft

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Obviously a flood of data loads in at this point, yes it could be the sim but IMO more likely the FBW A320, it’s a very good freeware addon but has the disadvantage of being in constant development. And I suspect you have other mods involved too e.g. Navigraph, AIG, Vatsim etc. so make sure these are all up to date. I also suggest you try with the default A320 at default airports for comparison.

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no it is not the aircraft I was flying PMDG 737 it is the sim maybe design of the airport not the aircraft 100% guarantee… idk maybe it happens with small aircraft too, i do not fly with them often and if I do is usually circle flight or something , but yeah i don’t usually do these

yes i have navigraph/vatsim running also.. as i said it doesn’t happen at all airports mostly those more complex LGAV is pretty complex, but I can swear that it is some object loading… but what ???

Back in P3D and FSX I pined it down to reflections.. once I disable reflections it went away.. but here now in MSFS I also disabled reflections “Raymarch.. something” yeah they are OFF and it makes no difference. I will try the same flight tomorrow see what happens. Might be difficult on vatsim to fly a drone before approach to preload the destination airport.. but i give it a try..

IMPORTANT: if it was a lots of information it would be happening every time.. but NO, the second approach or as I explained doing another landing from replays and it is very smooth as if this “SOMETHING” is now loaded and no longer causing the stutter .

All I can say is I don’t suffer this possibly because I have a very balanced PC or maybe because I don’t use many addons. I think you really need to start eliminating causes to find the answer to this e.g. have you tried lowering traffic or LOD settings to test?
Oh and the replays don’t stutter because really the only calculations they need are simple vectors meaning they have no triggers to contend with.

Sounds to me like Rolling cache has saved the data from the ground/airport, but, i haven’t seen your system up close and you claim it’s a good system with no hardware issues, so that automatically means game settings. If it’s only approach, i would guestimate it’s the terrain settings.
(although there have been many problems reported with the 3080 cards, but usually because of user errors in mistaking this sim/game for an fps shooter where more is better)

Also, what i’ve been through with many friends i’ve made through the years, is that, usually the settings of the simulator are too high, because many people are convinced this simulator should run at least 60 fps… but that merely only happens when the system running the sim is properly balanced. The idea of this particular series of Microsoft product has always been that Smooth is better than high fps. High FPS is nice for fast actioned shooters, not for a “reality based sim”. Hell, i remember a time where you’d be lucky to be able to run double digits. Yeah, i’m that old.

I’ll give you the example of my system:
i7 10700k (pretty good)
MSI MPG Z490 gaming plus (does the job, just dont update the bios, mistakes were made by msi)
32GB corsair DDR4 3200 (pretty good, but only about 12 ever gets used before the sim soils itself, probably memory leak of the sim or windows issue, still needs to be solved)
GTX 1080 (old, outdated, not upto pushing as many graphics as this sim desires)

Performance? Everything on Ultra or high, terrain on 200, rendering on 100… monitor on 75hz, fps ingame right now on 20fps (which actually locks me in at 25 fps) (normally on 30, which gives me 37,5 fps but it fluctuates alot more… apparently the next update will properly produce the frames that are set in the ingame menu, instead of cutting your hz into pieces, as 60fps right now in the ingame menu is actually 100% of your hz it’s trying to push. But if you have your monitor set to 144hz, yer only producing heat, not frames, as yer basically unlimiting your fps to what the system can handle, usually causing overheating and stuttering because of overrevving your system.)

Anyways, i’m astonished i get pretty good performance, nearly no stutters except when tight/quick turning… what i’m getting at here is: dont overrev your engine, check your hz on your monitor, check the fps… you want stable, not unstable dropping and rising of the graph in the imgame developer mode.

Oh, and i also have about 500something things installed, which includes Asobo things, third party things
and 150 mods in my community folder. This system should be stuttering, choking to say the least, but heavy addons like the 737 and the 146… nearly no stutters near major cities or big airports… yeah, aint i lucky huh?

Bluntly put, check and recheck your settings. Go for stable, not high, there’s alot to load every flight… once in the air, the data used by your system is lower than close to the ground, set the system up so that close to the ground runs smooth, then up in the air will be a breeze. The stutter when turning sharply, is basically the same as you trying to move the bookcase in your house, it just takes alot more effort when there’s books in there, then when it’s empty.

Hope it helps, if you want me to check with you, drop me a pm, i’ll invite you to my discord and help you diagnose… i’m not a miracle doctor, but i’ve booked some successes. All we’re really here for is the same great passion: flying.

Woof ~ Woof & Salute!

Steiny

ps: Just offering my services for the grumpy cat avatar :wink:

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you misunderstand me .. they are not replays… maybe you do not use replay so you don’t understand how it works… i try to explain

  1. you record you final approach up to the point you want say from 3000 ft till the moment you clear of active
  2. you start your replay (you can just watch it or…)
  3. once your replay starts at the beginning you STOP it and what happens it gives you back control of the aircraft so you land again YOURSELF not just replay.. YOU LAND AGAIN Great for practicing landing

If you only use the REPLAY to watch what you did “like a movie” then you see the stutter when it occurred as at that moment there was errors with vectors so that gets recorded.

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Thanks for your detailed post. Just for record i state my hardware.
10850K,3080,32RAM,SSD also i fly in VR
I do not think that I have my settings set too high as a matter of fact I am more on the low side.

What I am trying to get at is that the stutters occur ONLY and ALWAYS just moments before touch down ..anywhere from 300AGL to 0AGL,

If the airport was preloaded (say i did circle flight with 737) or I am doing another approach at the same airport (go around) 1st time stutter second approach fine NO stutter

Lastly when I do multiple approaches from recording for landing practice then only the first one had the stutter, every other one is fine, NO stutter

It does not have to happen at all airports happened at LGAV most recent. I will fly again today see if it stutters again.

I strongly believe that it has to do with new LOD objects loading, once they loaded into memory second time they are there ready and do not cause stutter.

Often I see for example landing in TNCM you see people at the beach load.. just they are maybe more simple and easier to load so they do not cause stutter for me. also at other airports often one can see some small objects loading as you are approaching rocks etc.. and sometimes they might cause this stutter. I think it is something more however like the terminal building that just coincidently decides to load more detail LOD.

I WANT TO STESS OUT that I have no problems taxing taking, off flying and in general flying, yeah there is some micro stutter here and there turning occasionally but to the point that I do not even notice it, These are nothing compared to the stutter at landing. IT IS A ONE MAYBE TWO BIG LONG STUTTERS then smooth for the rest but it is crucial moment so yeah… very annoying

All i can suggest is if you want try a landing at LGAV Fly Tampa scenery runway 03R if you have it. IMPORTANT DO NOT START FROM THIS AIRPORT go from somewhere else so you have direct path to 03R you can fly from Malta LMML, important so you do not over fly LGAV, but do straight in approach to 03R “not giving chance for something to preload first”

Ah now I understand. At a a guess the actual recording of a replay is not as optimised as it could be which is kind of understandable as the sim is still very much a moving target. And it would appear that good replays are still possible so forgive me for saying but I doubt this is of the highest priority.

I will have some stutters at takeoff and landings because of logbook trying to log departures and arrivals.

So, first thing I do after loading in is enabling and disabling dev mode, that somehow stops the logbook from the entire session. (also mostly gets rid of the spinning circle bottom right)

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I have no idea of your setup but that sounds to me like slow write speeds. Be sure your drives have 11-15% free space and that they are optimised regularly.

My write speeds are good afaik.

It’s a known issue:

I have read somewhere to enable Dev Mode I might try it, Thanks good info, their logbook is useless AF anyways
I do not get the spinning circle more like a 1/4 second pause or two.. i will give it a try anyways :slight_smile:

it has nothing to do with recording or not forget recording lets say I slew to try land again there won’t be a stutter second time

So I was able to try it out a little more and here are my findings.

  1. I was flying into LGAV from LIRF and on approach stutter and not possible to land.
  2. I started flight at LGAV taxi for take off did a circle flight and I had no issues on the approach it was fairly smooth further down the runway long after touch down there was a tiny stutter or two not the end of the world.

Exactly what I was expecting.

This add-on LGAV is really bad on FPS, it it littered with so much ■■■■ it’s not funny.. if you start flight from there everything will load and if you return the stuff will be in memory and will load a lot faster and won’t give any stutters.

So I think it is down to developer to actually check their airports, I also have their Toronto and I have no issues there, probably much better LOD organization.

LOD are a double edge sword as they might improve performance then can cause stutters on initial loading.

DevMode was irrelevant, i rather have it off because it introduces other issues when playing in VR which actually screwed up my first attempt, however I am certain that it has no relevance to my problem or it would be happening at every airport which is not the case.

I deleted (renamed) CGL file found in the scenery.. ground looked little ugly textured at the airport (dirt grass), mesh wasn’t very good.. but not a stutter at the approach.. hmm… almost 1 GB file BTW.. I take that over pretty hills an ditches at the airport, as I rather have smooth no stutter landing then stupid ditch and every bump and cranny at the airport .. hmmm.. not coping to load all the mash data and every bump and cranny at the airport causing stutters.. I wonder…

Not sure if it is the same issue but check out that post for a workaround: Freeze/Lags while touchdown - but fps around 50 while approaching - #31 by eduio13
Issue is reported here: Freeze during touchdown - since SU10

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yes I have them all disabled/renamed.

Funny I just looked and the effects listed here

…\FS2020\Official\OneStore\fs-base-effects\VisualEffectLibs\Asobo\Base no longer are there unless I deleted them initially, but I dont think I have, as for the other folder, I have them all renamed as per this post.

However, I think it has to do with more with either late loading of LOD objects from airport, maybe airport mesh data, and maybe even info contained in this enormous CGL file.

Some airports are pretty constant stutter just before toughdown, some are hit and miss, one flight it will be great smooth landing next time it will be a friggen stutter, when it happens around 400ft AGL I can handle it, no big deal, worst is when it happens iess then 100ft AGL then the landing quality take a toll and it’s usually cra.p, again worst so far airport was LGAV by FlyTampa, worst add-on performance wise ever !

Anyhow I really think the culprit is the scenery, and perhaps some settings are too high for my system at one point or another, since getting 4090 I have experienced a lot less of these stutters, so I am pretty certain it has to do with scenery, but what exactly that I haven’t got a clue :smiley:

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Hey there. We’re you ever able to resolve this?

No, not really.

I did upgrade to 4090 and it is much better now, but I would not consider it solved still get them from time to time. I strongly believe it has to do with the airport scenery complexity and design technics as at some airports I will never ever get it and more complex or poorly optimized one will get them more often, but again they are not as bad maybe due to the 4090.

Also I only fly in VR so that adds additional demand on the system.

It very well might be that I am simply requesting too much of my system, since upgrade to 4090 from 3080 did help but again they still do happen now and then just not as severe.

My suspicions are:

  1. LOD’s of objects loading.
  2. Mesh data (height maps) CGL files (not exactly sure what they are and what exact info they contain)

I am not sure if CGL are mesh data (height maps) but I think that is what they are, lately some developers were using CGL files in their designs and these files are ENORMOUS ranging up to 1GB in size !!

Lastly I will add that few scenery that I have which are also high detail and do not contain this CGL file perform much, much better then those that do in every aspect.

So, long story short, now if I do get them I will get them maybe about 150-300 AGL further from threshold so they do not cause such pain at landing and they are much less severe, while before the problem occurred anywhere from 0-50 AGL just as I got over the threshold causing in horrible landings.

Interesting. I also upgraded to a 4090 and receive that single stutter from time to time. Clearly the after market scenery developers aren’t considering VR. Which makes me apprehensive to buy new scenery.

I did turn down my ground vehicle traffic, water traffic, etc to 20 across the board.

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