As far as I understand, running the vanilla sim with beautiful visuals on the boxes is not a big problem at all - we have seen that in fact during SU10 for example. That was peak MSFS on the Xbox for me. It’s when you start to add third party stuff, airports especially, that things get start to get difficult due to memory limitations. To alleviate this, visual fidelity has been sacrificed.
Why this impacts the PC folks with several times more memory - who knows. But I understand it’s very annyoing for you.
EDIT: sorry GAD16DK, replied to you by mistake - this was meant as a general post
Me too. At launch I had a 9900K coupled with a Nvidia 1080.
I now run a 11900K, with a 3090FE, and you can see that visbility, LOD at distance, is worse now than it used to be. Over time I have gradually had to reduce my LOD levels from 400/400, down to 250/200, to get the same frame rates as I used to enjoy.
I’m not sure what other things have caused this, whether its increased fidelity nearer to the plane, but its been a sliding trend for a while, and something that I hope 2024 will reverse.
I’ve deleted all WUs, add-on planes, add-on airports, reinstalled and ran it as vanilla as possible. I can tell you it changes nothing with LOD. Did this a few weeks ago. But agreed, I think those things for cause CTD/BS for some users (though not me personally), the only problem I have is LOD.
For me there absolutely not a reason to seek blame on Xbox users. I’m very happy with the large increase of the community as together we keep prices low but also celebrate simming together here in the community.
I’ve been on MSFS since SU3 I think, had a grand upgrade of hardware a few weeks back and it still really isn’t what we had prior to SU5. The only change there was the introduction to Xbox.
I dont seek to blame Xbox (users), I’d just like them to find a fix for all users together.
I’m not hating on the Xbox people at all. Just think Asobo has done a poor job.
I hope that 2024 is being engineerd to both platforms, and therefore will function a heck of a lot better, and also look better.
I worry about their “thin client/more server streamin” since already now, we have had issues with EXTREMELY low download speeds in content manager for 8 weeks. NO fix! Online functions being turned off all the time for no reason of my equipment.
Try… Two years ago, just before the infamous SU5 You know, the update when all went wrong on the PC for good. This would melt an xbox to a puddle of mud (In high LODs I could use easily well over 30 GB of DRAM just for msfs). And I mean this in the nicest way, and mean no offences. I’m happy the XBOX saved msfs and is making 2024 possible. I also know, you have to trade something to gain something when software/hardware are at its limits.
Truly, unless you’re the Russian army in WWII, quantity cannot make up for quality. What Microsoft has done to MFS (I, myself, hold Asobo blameless) is criminal. In a rational and honest world, you do not take someone’s money and then make the product worse and worse and worse. Tesla has made my car better and better over the years. IF they had, instead, intentionally made it worse and worse, you can bet your last dollar that there would have been dozens of lawsuits. Why does MS continue getting away with this? They’re probably not, as otherwise loyal customers are abandoning them – tit for tat.
It was not so different (graphics) on Series X two years ago. So not sure I’m following how the SU5 change to Xbox derailed PC. How are they interrelated? BTW my XSX remained amazing graphically until WU Oceania. That’s when LOD fell off a cliff for me personally.
A lot of folks say Xbox derailed PC. I’m not saying it’s not true, I just want to know specifics. Do you know that’s what happened for sure? If so how? For as certain as a lot of folks are it should be a fairly easy explanation.
With those LODs, there is population of Photogrammetry, and AI buildings in their highest detail to the limit of the rendering (Horizon). That is the difference. I never mentioned xbox invoked this change (Not lately), well, you did . I merely stated that with, and after SU5 things took a downward spiral on PC (This is fact). How this correlates, would only be speculation on anyone’s part I would think. I am certainly not looking to refuel any xbox bashing, there was enough of that to last 2 or 3 lifetimes when SU5 dropped. It was ugly, and I was involved. I hate to admit, but I threw a tankers worth of oil on that fire. I can explain as much of what happened, as anyone can explain infinity. They’re both concepts we’re not meant to grasp I guess
Let’s just say, I hope MSFS2024 serves our community well, all of us!!! And with any luck, threads like this one can be left in the past/dust.
It’s all about timing. I noticed some degradation after some of their SUs, and it happened at the same time when people started talking about MSFS on Xbox. It is more like speculation, of course. A kind of coincidence, may be.
Exactly right.
And I’ve heard folks reference SU5 as the turning point. But this was not the case for me personally on XSX. The degradation came much later with the mandatory update in conjunction with WU Oceania. I know this because I was simming when it released, and directly after downloading it. Yet another reason why I question the ‘Xbox at fault’ theory. There have to be multiple factors at play. Even with the Xbox simmers a lot of folks are having different experiences.
What happened with SU5 on PC has nothing to do with Xbox (and after rereading his comment I don’t think he was saying it did). What I meant was Xbox started out fantastic and stayed that way for a year and a half. There was never a SU that made it worse for me personally, unlike the claims on PC that SU5,6,7 etc was the culprit. WU Oceania was the culprit for me. Long after any of those things happened.
Pre SU5 had a lot more detail available. No popping. You could look into the distance and see detail.
Many bugs were also introduced (like the right mouse button blocking cockpit controls) with SU5. Those changes were made to accommodate the lower specs baked into the XBox.
Yes the sim pre-SU5 needed a decent system to run it - it tried to fry my laptop a few times - but that was my problem as I was trying to run it at ultra. The sim would and could take all that was available to it. Even at max settings now, it does not.
If you didn’t experience it, how could you possibly have an opinion on it?
Can we just agree to disagree, and call it a day (No, I’m not saying xbox caused it)? I’m not calling anyone, or any machine/hardware out. I’ve seen how quickly this debate lights a bonfire.
There were a couple or more times things took a turn for the worse (I think it was WU6 that caused me a two week nothing but stutters until hotfix). All in all, I still enjoy the sim. as of late, It’s been pretty stable for me. unless I introduce instability.
Don’t really have an opinion. Someone said in this thread and I’ve seen it on the forums that PC went down hill with SU5, so I don’t actually know that’s the case just from second hand info it seems to be at least to some extent.
In your opinion is Xbox responsible for the degradation of PC?
If SU5 was to introduce Xbox as you mention, and Xbox had amazing graphics right off the bat…why did PC take a hit from that? And if so, do you have any videos you recommend that show pre-Xbox release PC graphics that were better than shortly after Xbox release? You could be right!
Just trying to figure this out, if Xbox is indeed responsible for PC degradation then I don’t like that (even as an Xbox simmer). But it seems to be speculation as others have said.
BTW I can only post once every two hours, never seen that before.
Interesting, had Xbox with a mouse since day 1 and don’t recall having this.
I hear you. Absolutely. I’m not even sure we disagree on anything lol!
This is a very accurate description ^^^^ As far as I remember, there was also no LOD switching system. You got the full resolution of photogrammetry, planes, AI, all of it. from 7 miles away w/e. It was like an engine that had no rev limiter. The more ram, or clock speeds you threw at it… it ate it, until all of a sudden there were no bubbles of high detail rendering. No photogrammetry melt, nothing missing. Even the darn DEMs loaded to a distance. I remember a detail level so crisp you could make out tall buildings rooftop air conditioners and patio setups etc. I remember night lighting that was astounding. I remember pre-covid seeing up to a dozen planes in the sky in Metro Toronto area. All that traffic didn’t even cause a hic-up. Not only could you see this, you could use skyscappers as an obstacle course, and I did. I think I still have videos from when SamScene Hong Kong first released, it was like a playground. Sorry for the speech, maybe I do miss it. Because with all this detail, it was also fabulously smooth (Hardware provided). Now I find, again, I have to lose something to gain something. If I want to play acrobat, time to turn down Tlod. Not everything at once. Maybe we got spoiled? Daddy gave us the car keys to his new Ferrari, then took 'em away and handed us the polishing cloth.
Maybe 2024 is, hey doods, Sorry about SU5, sorry about Oceania update… Look, we made it better faster stronger
Xbox caused Microsoft to reign in the limits of the sim to fit within XBox’s memory limitations. IIRC 8GB of memory was the maximum available to the console, whereas I was often using upwards of 20GB of memory.
So yes, including XBox directly impacted the sim.
Now commercially it brought in thousands if not millions of additional users of the sim. That is not a bad decision, but it is not what we are discussing here.
The limitations imposed from SU5 have been well discussed above. No point in going around in circles here.
And if you’ve only known XBox MSFS, then you cannot have any idea of the impacts or bugs that were introduced to accommodate it. The mouse bug has been confirmed by Asobo to be something that was unable to be worked around as it interfered with the way XBox controls work. There has been no fix since then.
As MrTonySIM says, let’s hope that FS2024 manages to move the sim forward again. Ideally, separating the console and PC limits.
You know, the update when all went wrong on the PC for good. This would melt an xbox to a puddle of mud (In high LODs I could use easily well over 30 GB of DRAM just for msfs). And I mean this in the nicest way, and mean no offences. I’m happy the XBOX saved msfs and is making 2024 possible. I also know, you have to trade something to gain something when software/hardware are at its limits.
. I merely stated that with, and after SU5 things took a downward spiral on PC (This is fact). How this correlates, would only be speculation on anyone’s part I would think. I am certainly not looking to refuel any xbox bashing, there was enough of that to last 2 or 3 lifetimes when SU5 dropped. It was ugly, and I was involved. I hate to admit, but I threw a tankers worth of oil on that fire. I can explain as much of what happened, as anyone can explain infinity. They’re both concepts we’re not meant to grasp I guess 
