Just taken a look at the yf-23, and it looks very interesting. I’ll keep an eye on this and see how it develops.
I agree. But…
What’s one of the first things asked of people submitting bug reports?
- Have you emptied your Community folder? 3rd Party products, and their potential interactions with Microsoft/Asobo code can create tremendous difficulty in identifying the source of user issues. Same thing with hardware.
I think it’s one of the main reasons we’re seeing the trend towards official partners like IniBuilds and WorkingTitle. It’s all about control.
Encryption? Control.
Streaming model? Control.
I’ve lobbied for more 3rd Party integration, and continue to think it would improve the sim:
Better ATC
A granular dynamic LOD tool
Better scenery design
Better weather
Better live traffic
There are developers out there doing all those things, but Microsobo doesn’t seem to want to invest in them. Look at what happened to Fenix. They arguably make the best A320 out there. But Microsoft chose to lock them out of the pre-release of FS2024 (or am I wrong about that?)
And the new SDK has proven a challenge for 3rd Party devs. Why? Why are so many developers only now releasing native FS24 aircraft? Some still not able to release even compatible version of their FS20 products.
These are all just questions in my mind that speak to the direction the sim is going - which is, after all, the topic of this thread.
Case in point:
It looks like //42 Flow Pro may be in the same boat.
Active Sky: “I’m better than the built-in sim weather injection.”
Microsoft: " We want our users to use ours."
//42: “Our Flow Pro toolbar replacement is miles ahead of the built-in toolbar.”
Microsoft: “Too bad.”
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I think one of the ones with 2024 updated aircraft is just reskining a base game planes
Half expect to see native versions of captain sims hercs early
in my opinion, the problem they have with that, is that they failed to understand a chunk of their customer base
jrg once said, and i agree, the user base can be divided into several well defined sub-groups, eg: virtual tourists, core simmers, casuals, tubeliners, bush pilots, etc, etc
However, in my opinion, there are two underlying subgroups that are more subtle and not so well defined and are easy to miss: People that don’t care if things don’t work, and people that do care. I think it may be roughly 50/50
Example: a lot of folks in here say “2024 works perfectly fine for me”. ok.. fair enough. But, what is “perfectly fine”? Just as an example, the bugged lights in the 172. You cannot use 2024 and NOT have that bug… because it’s there for everyone. What happens is, many folks just dont care about it. And that’s fine. But that doesnt mean that no one cares about it.
In my view, 2020 had a myriad of things that didn’t work. However… the product was so good, and so far ahead of anything else, that we all accepted it as it was, bugs or not, we were all on board. I think someone made the mistake of reading that as “bugs are not a priority to the users, because they are all using it regardless” so… they took it to the next level and released a product with even more bugs with the idea of fixing them along the way as time permits. Unfortunately that was too much for some people and the whole thing exploded.
How are they going to get those folks to move to 2024? well.. i dont know honestly, because it will take a long time to fix everything, if they ever do. I think its possible they might have lost some of them (not me) for good.
5 Likes
Yes it’s free on flightsim.to.
I can’t link it for some reason, search for “Little Navmap VR Panel”.
Absolutely amazing mod.
To get the Google maps overlay you need to install custom maps to LNM, easily googleable.
2 Likes
SU2 is promising, but there are still a ways to go. At least there have been a good few aircraft fixes too this time around. Many of the major glaring graphical bugs and other issues with the 737 Max are now addressed for example. I think SU2 is possibly where the sim should have been on release. Agree though hard to convince people to switch back again, but it’s definitely getting there.
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The topic is about the future of FS 2024. Hoping not to add redundancy to this lengthy thread, I’d ask the experts to recall 2020’s SU5 when there’s was serious regression in the sim, and it coincided precisely with its introduction on the Xbox. I remember Jorg or Seb throwing up their hands figuratively and saying aloud, “They [Microsoft] said to cram it into the box.” I’d love to hear the experts among us (because I certainly ain’t one) opine on whether this is a significant part of what’s plaguing 2024.
My point is that, while I have 0 years in software development, I still wonder how much of the gigantic problem with 2024 has been due to Microsoft’s continuing to force Asobo to “cram it into the box.” We may never have an explicit explanation of this hypothetical question, but if it’s a significant part of the agonizingly slow development, it could augur ill for MSFS until development is split into PC and console versions. If that’s not done, it’s conceivable that 2024 can never get out of its seemingly endless beta test period.
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Yep, if you buy a years upload to cloud data your game works. 100%
If they hadn’t “crammed it into the box” we’d all be requiring 5090’s, 512GB RAM to run it by now. 
I really doubt that…
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As I speak, 2024 is running great on my PC, and I like it, but I still cannot run 2020 flawlessly. I reported the 2020 issues to support and have not yet gotten a solution. 2020 runs well, but when I finish and want to quit the game, the game refuses to quit. I have to use the task manager to kill the app.
Why was I negative about 2020?
Installation experience: My PC is very high-end. 1 Gbps internet, Gen 2 NVME, Ryzom 7 9800X3d, 64GB, and 4090. For example, I installed a new game, The Last of Us two, which is 100GB, in 20 minutes, and it ran immediately on ultra without a single glitch. All other games and software on my PC are extremely stable. I have built the essential knowledge dealing win Windows since version 3.0.
How I installed 2020: I configured a new 1GB partition and installed Windows 11 fresh. Did all Windows updates and drivers. I want this Windows instance to be for MSFS. To share with you, I run three different Windows installations on my PC and recommend something similar: 1 for iRacing VR, 1 for casual gaming from Steam, and one dedicated to MSFS. The MSFS runs on Gen 5 NVME 14500MB/S for fastest loading.
First, I installed 2024, and it went smoothly, but I faced the issue of career mode and discovery flights not loading until the issue was solved. The 2024 installation took like 40 minutes.
However, the 2020 installation experience was like this. The installer started, and the download speed fluctuated between 1 Mbps and 100 MBPS. After about 4 hours, the installation was around 30% and stopped while decompressing a file. That happened 3 times, so it took till the next day. At 100%, this happened again. So, I thought the installation was complete, and after I ran the sim, it got pink shaders, pink, and the menus were not there. All files are messed up. So, I removed everything and restarted the installation. Again, one time, the installation stopped but was finished successfully.
I launched 2020 for the first time, and it crashed while loading in the middle. By chance, someone on the web said to go to the Nvidia App and run auto settings. I did, and the sim ran. People talk about Nvidia driver incompatibility. Yesterday, there was an Nvidia driver update, but the new driver did not change anything.
My status now is OK. 2024 is running well, and I am extremely happy to have that. 2020 crashes on quit is not a big deal, as I plan to use mainly 2024.
My concern is, why does installing a 150GB game from Steam take 25 minutes, and the game runs well, and with MSFS, is it like the one above? Same with iRacing. In 2 hours, I configured Windows and iRacing, and all runs well.
I installed Windows more than 1000 times, perhaps in the past 30 years, from Windows 3.0, while working for MS. So I assume I know what I am doing.
I came to this forum to add some spices so that perhaps people can understand that such experiences are unacceptable and need to do something. A simulator could be more complicated but X-Plane 12 runs from the first time.
Sorry for the long post. I hope it was beneficial reading it 
Enjoy!
Two days of exploration. I hope in the future I engage in this forum to learn more about flights, especially from those with professional aviation backgrounds.
What I learned as a direct answer to my post is that 2024 will work well, and it seems it is based on a certain architecture that can deliver what is required. But I want to mention the following:
- MSFS 2024 needs careful handling as many aspects impact its stability, such as Xbox gaming services, cloud storage, network bandwidth, MODS, multi-platform (Xbox and Windows), and many other elements. All this drives MSFS to be technically a complex system rather than complicated. (For those interested, read about Systems theory and Complex systems.)
- I wish Asobo had put more control on the platform. It might be crazy to say it, but I made the SIM only for Windows. Perhaps another light game version for the Xbox.
- Not everyone around the world will be able to run MSFS 2024 well, as it needs a solid and fast internet connection
- MSFS 2024 is beautiful software, so we are willing to spend time making it run. But imagine its potential if it runs flawlessly from the first time. Perhaps MSFS 2024 should have been two versions: Starter and Pro.
- Consider the name. MSFS 2024 is perhaps not the best for a platform. 2024 should be there. Give it a name like MSFS “Skies, Globe, Dreams, …” but not a number.
I wish everyone an enjoyable flying experience, and I do not want to ignore or forget the tremendous efforts by Asobo’s team bringing this sim to this stage. Please continue the efforts (Sim updates 2, 3, …) to enhance its reliability—quality, Testing, Testing, … Simplifications. You need more computer scientists than marketers (Sorry, marketers).
Cheers!
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I’m very surprised that someone who worked for MS had so much trouble with MSFS2020/4. I’m a techie, have a lower high-end system, had no problems installing, configuring or running either '20 or '24. Sure, there were glitches and crashes here and there, but overall, the SW has been very stable and I’ve most definitely received my money’s worth.
OTOH, I wonder if the cutting upper edge of the tech doesn’t come with a special set of problems, like for example, immature drivers, new or constantly changing specs, lack of proper documentation, etc. I’ve actually seen much more of this type of thing as compared to problems I’ve had with MSFS itself.
Today I flew from Innsbruck to Bolzano in a heli in extremely bad weather. White knuckle most of the way, hugging the trees in heavy rain. Smooth as silk, stunning visuals.
No offense but I just don’t get all the complaining.
Happy flying!
5 Likes
You too enjoy the sims, both of them!
I hope you’ll work out the CoE (crash on exit) issue…
Happy flying!
I think it’s great to have objective discussion, and obviously we all see 2024 differently. But to me, it sounds like you are assuming catastrophic failure in your posts which doesn’t feel truly objective. It reads more like setting a narrative that MSFS2024 is broken beyond repair or at least planting the idea that it is early on. That’s how it comes across, at least from my perspective.
That said, MSFS2024 is not on life support, and I think a lot of people still underestimate how complex the platform really is. It’s designed to evolve over time, and not something that is doomed because the initial release had major growing pains and long list of bugs. If you are keeping it real, you build it forward, and that’s exactly what’s happening. I like that MS/Asobo didn’t play it safe with 2024 etc., and instead they took the much harder committed road which has massive potential over the next 10 years.
I wanted to share my perspective as someone who’s been heavily invested in the sim community for years.
To me, MSFS 2024 is the flight sim nobody really asked for. Third-party development in MSFS 2020 was finally hitting its stride. Stability was improving, the sim was becoming familiar, and users were really starting to enjoy the overall experience. It had that “mature” feel that comes after years of iteration and refinement.
If Asobo and Microsoft had delivered on their promise of backwards compatibility—truly delivered—we might be having a very different conversation right now. Had MSFS 2024 been an evolution of 2020, using the same core as a stable foundation, I think most users would’ve embraced the new sim with open arms. Instead, we got sweeping changes that feel aimed more at appealing to the console market than supporting the core sim community. One of the most frustrating oversights is how poorly control mappings carried over. It’s baffling that more time wasn’t spent ensuring a smoother transition here. Any serious simmer knows how much of a headache it is to reconfigure everything from scratch. Even the UI feels like a step backward—significantly watered down compared to 2020. This thread sums it up well: I prefer UI from 2020 and here’s why.
Let’s not forget that five years ago, Asobo and Microsoft sat down and told us this sim would be for the hardcore community. They even addressed concerns about MSFS being “just another Xbox game” during the 2020 global premier event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGQp06v8qTk&t=444s , promising that this wasn’t their intent. But here we are—and it sure feels like that promise has been lost. That said, I don’t think MSFS 2024 is going anywhere. Microsoft will keep pushing forward with it, and many developers will follow. But I also don’t think MSFS 2020 is going anywhere either. As I’ve said before, MSFS 2024 is an evolutionary step—not a revolutionary one. It’s not the leap we saw when we moved from P3D to 2020.
What’s tough to watch is how some top-tier developers, like PMDG, seem to be shifting their focus toward the Xbox crowd. I have a lot of respect for PMDG, but let’s be honest—the 747 could’ve launched on MSFS 2020. Instead, they’ve leaned into this narrative that everyone’s moving to 2024, when in reality it seems like the majority making that jump are console users, not PC simmers. To make matters worse, PMDG has cited the increased costs and delays involved in developing for both sims as a reason for focusing solely on 2024. And that’s part of the bigger issue here—MSFS 2024 wasn’t just a technical reset, it was a strategic one that’s made it harder for developers to support both platforms. Whether intentional or not, the result is a fractured community and customers effectively being forced to migrate to a platform they may not want or be ready for.
If Microsoft and Asobo wanted to make this right, they would make a clear effort to reassure the community that MSFS 2020 isn’t going anywhere—and that backwards compatibility will remain a priority. Even if not every 2024 product could function in 2020, giving users some access to newer content would help maintain goodwill. More importantly, it would relieve pressure on developers who are currently forced to choose between wasted development time or added expenses just to stay relevant across both platforms.
Lastly, I’ll admit it—maybe it’s selfish, but when it comes to PMDG products, I waited five years to finally see a 747 come to MSFS. Now that 2024 is here and developers are beginning to make “exclusives”, I’m essentially being forced to adopt a new sim I don’t want, for improvements that honestly mean very little to me. I’m getting over 100 frames per second in MSFS 2020, smooth performance, and an experience I’ve been looking forward to for years. Meanwhile, 2024 offers only marginal gains, a fraction of the third-party compatibility, and creates an environment where developers are expected to either split their time or follow the money after the Xbox crowd made the switch. That’s not just frustrating—it’s disheartening.
Anyway, that’s my take. I say it because I care about the platform—and because I know a lot of others feel the same.
11 Likes
Please 10 years. We all know it won’t last that long. New back end software will replace what we use today across all platforms.
funny, disappointed by fs2024, I switched to iracing in November 2024, and I play very little msfs, as if this fiasco had disappointed me very deeply and made me lose my passion… as I refuse to change computers (5800x, 6800xt oc, 32gb ram to play in 5120*1440 with little compromise on quality), I’m waiting for fs2024 to be optimized for dx12 multithreading etc and allow me to play at 30fps (it remains modest), to buy it and reconsider it.
As someone with vast experience, how do you feel MSFS and iRacing compare, in terms of complexity of each project?