Yes, but they never had the laziness to begin with.
Therefore, what improvements they are praising must not have to do with solving the laziness, which is the purpose of this thread, no?
What am I missing here?
My concern is that you’ll report that Seedy’s settings have solved this laziness issue for a user that never had the laziness issue in the first place.
(And I’m not trying to be combative with you! 
)
All good! I’m just trying to get a better picture as to whether the settings Seedy provided have helped users with this issue, which I guess can be taken in the context of this potential issue and the wider context of just generally improving how the Tobii feels when in use! 
Please let us know if they do help, as there seems to be mixed reports from users (and team members) about being able to consistently reproduce this.
Cheers
First off, with .17 my settings are back to reflecting their values as I had originally set them. That is positive.
Secondly, I realized why setting a new controls profile has zero bearing on changing the settings for the Tobii. The reason? You set Tobii’s parameters via the Gear Icon button next to the Tobii device, which is going to universally affect any/all profiles made for the Tobii.
In other words, to experiment with Tobii settings one would be wise to write down/screenshot what they had prior to making alterations.
Okay, all of that has noting to do with the laziness, but these points were brought up me as puzzling when I’d noted both my missing settings, no change in behavior due to them being different and, lastly, I was puzzled by why the default “Tobii” control profile behaved no differently to my own “Head Tracking Only” profile.
Back to the point of the thread.
I, like @rottenbk think I see an improvement. Then again, I’ve had multiple days/sessions using the sim with this issue that my brain has just adapted to it. I know I am losing objectivity about it, and that is frustrating for me.
I truly feel it feels less of an issue the more quickly you move your head. So a quickly executed dart left to look at the passenger side door handle, or a similarly quickly executed dart back right to look back at your pilot-side instruments seems to feel more normal, but the lag is still present.
As I stated in an earlier post, the laziness or lag is most easily seen and being primarily visible when moving slowly such as glancing from the HSI towards the GNS in the 172 Classic and back. During this sort of subtle head movement is where you really see the laziness.
Perhaps, again as I stated in an earlier post, that this is a result of a dampening of the head movement to provide us with a more stable tracking experience to reduce/eliminate the frustration of trying to hold seriously freaking still to click that small toggle switch with a mouse without turning off the headtracking to do so.
In short, I’m not sure how much of a change there is here, for me. At the risk of this statement being a “green light” on the issue, I’ve adapted to it, and perhaps that is okay if the purpose of the lag is to improve the ease with which we can hold still easily enough to operate controls in the virtual cockpit with a mouse – something that has been a struggle for Tobii users since 2020.
Thoughts?
I want to start off by saying my thoughts and experiences with this issue are almost perfectly inline with NixonRedgrave’s.
Then again, I’ve had multiple days/sessions using the sim with this issue that my brain has just adapted to it. I know I am losing objectivity about it, and that is frustrating for me.
100% this. Anyone who has spent a lot of time editing photos understands this frustration. You stare at a photo for too long and think you have the white balance just right, then you return a little while later and wonder why everything looks green 
To that end, I’ve found that switching back to OpenTrack (which I have tuned just right for me) I can sort of “reset” my perception. It’s a bit of a hassle because you have to install/remove OpenTrack each time you want to test.
Just before I wrote this reply I jumped into the sim to refresh in my mind what I saw yesterday. And somehow the laziness, which I described as “almost gone”, suddenly seemed WORSE today! Not as bad as in the first SU5 Beta versions (where it was immediately obvious something was wrong) but it didn’t match what I experienced yesterday.
And then as I worked some settings it seemed to be “ok” again. Interestingly enough, I ended up with settings slightly different than yesterday. I don’t know how to explain that.
I’ve been trying to simplify things by turning all sensitivities to 0, except Yaw. I know that this is an unrealistic way to set things up but the idea being to clearly demonstrate the laziness issue.
With Yaw set to 0.3 - 0.5 or more, and Camera Boost Ratio at 0.5+, that laziness effect was definitely there. Over time I was able to compensate how I move my head and reduce the effect but it wasn’t a realistic way to look around.
Turning Yaw to 0 and concentrating on Pitch, I found the laziness effect even worse.
It was hard to say if the Camera Boost Ratio setting made the problem better or worse - it just felt different. 
Working at these extremes I can say that the laziness effect is still definitely there. More realistic settings can definitely minimize the effect but it’s still present, even if to a much smaller degree.
I even tried to made a recording:
(this was supposed to act as a pointer, to show where I was physically aiming my head)Unfortunately this set up was too janky and the video wasn’t much of a success LOL
In short, I’m not sure how much of a change there is here, for me. At the risk of this statement being a “green light” on the issue, I’ve adapted to it
This goes for me as well - I can tune the settings and adapt to the remaining effect but really want the devs to understand that I’m not saying the problem is fixed or “good enough”. And I still suspect that this laziness effect is contributing to the apparent drift and the requirement for frequent resetting.
To be honest if SU5 was released as it is now I would probably just commit to using OpenTrack. That’s not me being grumpy about the great effort the devs have been putting into this work, just a statement of fact.
On a more positive note, I’m finding that the native MSFS Tobii implementation to work quite well overall.
Where I characterized OpenTrack as “responsive” and “accurate” I’d call the MSFS native version “smooth” and “steady”.
As noted previously up-thread, it’s quite easy to hold the view steady enough to work the small buttons and dials on the cockpit, something that can be a challenge otherwise.
To some degree “responsive and accurate” can be seen as the opposite of “smooth and steady” but if we can somehow find a way to combine those two sides I think we’ll be in pretty good shape! 
I’ve mentioned elsewhere how much I appreciate how the overall implementation of the new Tobii SDK is better than the previous iteration.
The big one is translation when leaning forward to look out a side window, for example. In the old implementation, you had to do the opposite to get the camera to look out towards the wing.
Just tested with three short flights in three different aircraft - JF Tomahawk, A2A Comanche and BKSQ Bonanza.
I experienced no discernible laziness/dampening at all and significantly for me, I barely touched the headtracking reset. I would say this has been the best performance I’ve had since one of the early SU4 Beta builds.
I’ll try on some longer flights tomorrow as I have had intermittent success before.
Using EnjonUK’s numbers as a base, I found that there’s still a slight laziness between the motion of my head and the movement of the view. For me it’s most noticeable when I stop moving my head and the best way I can describe it as a “tapering off” of the view’s movement. So if I turn my head 15° to the left and stop, the view slowly comes to a stop at 17° (these are made up numbers to illustrate my point).
If it wasn’t for NixonRedgrave’s posts, I’d start to feel like a crazy person 
Tweaking the numbers a touch, this is what I came up with:
Using these, I did some patterns around the neighbourhood and found that they worked really well, despite the lingering “laziness” sensation. Eventually I adapted and didn’t notice the laziness unless looking for it (I am going crazy).
The good news is that I don’t think I had to reset the view once while in flight.
I still don’t think we’re out of the woods yet but I’m optimistic that we’re heading in the right direction.
Thanks everyone for your input and your patience with my wall-of-words posting
Success!
Enable Developer Mode.
Click Debug → Device Datas
Select the Tobii tab and check the box next to Display TGI Settings (green circle)
A new window will pop up, expand the HeadTracking section (yellow circle)
There’s a setting called settings.HeadTrackingRotationResponsiveness (white circle)
By default it’s at 0.500. By playing with this slider I can adjust the amount of “laziness” at will. 1.000 eliminated it. At 100% it’s a bit too robotic for my liking, something around 0.800 or 0.850 felt much more natural but this will be a personal thing.
Much more testing needs to be done but this is the biggest positive change I’ve seen so far.
As an aside, there’s lots of neat options in the Device Datas and TGI Settings windows, such as the gaze preview (the red circle on the prop blade). It also makes tuning your settings much easier because you can do it all in real time and in-sim. Unfortunately none of those changes will get saved between sessions.
So today I learned that there’s much more settings under the hood than is exposed to the user via the regular Tobii controls settings. Hopefully the developers can open this up a bit more and we can have all the fine adjustments we’re looking for.
Wow. Now that is quite the discovery.
Me of little words.
It seems simple in retrospect. What we described as “laziness” is a lack of responsiveness.
IMO if the developers could expose this “Head Tracking Responsiveness” setting to the main controls config for the Tobii device (just put it right below the already existing Eye Tracking Responsiveness) then I would say this specific issue can be considered solved.
Hopefully the mods can push this idea up the chain of command.
Weird that it took you to find this.
Where is the individual who implemented this SDK in all of this? You’d think they would understand what this was. Oh, unless that individual was AI, and no one actually worked on this. How strange this sim’s development seems from the outside looking in.
No wonder the headphone simulation key binding is still broken after 2 sims and 3 years.
As an outsider looking in, the solution seems simple enough:
Change the Eye vs Head Tracking Ratio to Head Tracking Responsiveness and make that slider adjust the settings.HeadTrackingRotationResponsiveness variable. Leave it at the default 0.50
The user wants to adjust the ratio of Eye vs Head tracking? Easy! Adjust each slider to taste.
Oh, unless that individual was AI
This is a great bit of detective work!
Had a play with it and found 0.675 worked quite well for me, not quite as ‘snappy’ as 0.8.
I’d not want to swap that out tbh. I like being able to change the mix between head/eye tracking. Why not just add it as an extra slider?
I’m using Tobii too, there are definitely settings! I don’t remember which one, but try it. I once set it up, and now all working very well!
Yeah, you’re right.
We should be giving the user more control and settings, not less!
Hello @rottenbk,
Appreciate you posting this information! I have shared your post here with the dev team for further investigation.
Thanks,
MSFS Team
Great find ! It indeed makes the issue much better !
Sadly it does getting defaulted each restart.
Yes unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be a way to save that value and there’s no information about it in the SDK documentation (“Coming Soon” is all it says under Device Data)
So for the time being it looks like we’re at the mercy of the devs - I got used to changing it every time I boot up MSFS but this isn’t a proper workaround, despite what the thread’s tag says.
