Waiting for an answer… Is this really Microsoft's or ASOBO's way of thinking about Microsoft Flight Simulator users on Xbox?

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In a YouTube video from the Microsoft Flight Simulator account announcing an older scenery update, I asked via a comment the following questions:

"When will Xbox users be considered in the development priorities of third party product integrations for Flight Simulator?

When will all aircraft, apps, activities, scenery, addons and peripheral utilities such as Vatsim, Ivao or Navigraph be available to Xbox customers who pay for the game just like PC users?"

Even though I haven’t had the kind reply from Microsoft or Asobo, I did manage to get two user responses that caught my attention.

The first of the responses reads:

"Vatsim, IVAO and Navigraph are not dependant on.

Microsoft. 3rd party products integration on Xbox depends on the developers of these products to adapt their products to the console platform, like PMDG’s 737.

Not a microsoft defender, just telling you the truth."

Is that true? When I asked the same question to some developers, the reason they gave me is the impossibility to connect to the console and the lack of test environment on Xbox. Additionally, the public statement of Vatsim , for example, tell other version of the story.
The second response received to my YouTube comment was:

“Get over it… Console users are not serious simmers and so there is no point in developing e.g vatsim for Xbox use…”

On the latter, I would like to know if indeed Microsoft and Asobo think this way about Flight Simulator users on Xbox (it is my sincere hope that this is not the case).

I expose these genuine concerns (both my original questions, and those derived from the answers to my YouTube comment), to know the opinion of the community and if possible from Microsoft and Asobo as direct sources.

Thank you all in advance for your kind and valuable responses.

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Moved to Discussion Hub since this is a) not a Bug Report and b) Topic Author deleted Bug Report Template.

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Hello @LentesAzules,
These are good questions.

I’ve pushed this over to the Community Managers for an official response.

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As for the first question, the VATSIM response explains it well already. There are limitations what you can run and do within a confined environment like Xbox. Unless Microsoft opens it up we won’t see these kind of utilities/applications etc. That said, it’s very unlikely it will open up. There may be some workarounds with limitations but ultimately you just can’t install and run whatever you want (for the better or the worse).

The second statement is just elitism you hear on the forums all the time as well. It’s nonsense, there are plenty serious simmers on Xbox and plenty casual simmers on PC. We all should be happy it’s available on Xbox to further grow the simming community. Larger market means more addons, more hardware choices, etc. It benefits everyone. I’m saying this as a PC simmer who is “serious”. At least most of the time :slight_smile: I’m 100% sure Microsoft and asobo take the Xbox platform serious as well :wink:

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Here more evidence of the behavior of the “community”

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VATSIM’s comment is correct.

Everything that requires a file browser or an application that Microsoft distributes is impossible on Xbox. Changing that is extremely unlikely to happen as it would mean a complete change of the Xbox platform. This has nothing to do with the DLC creators or the Microsoft FS team but everything to do with Xbox and Cloud being different platforms.

As DLC developer, you have to color within the lines.

Mathijs Kok
PMDG Simulations

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Thank you @TheFalconOne . So, if it is an issue of Xbox files and connection system, and Xbox is a Microsoft brand, then by transitivity it is an issue of priorities and valuation of Xbox simmers by Microsoft.

It answer the question about Microsoft, and keep out of the discussion Asobo (that have all their efforts targeted in capitalizing on the success of A Plague Tale: Requiem)

It’s good to know it

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As for VATSIM (and others like it) it’s pretty simple why it’ll never run on XBox.
VATSIM is sim agnostic (it also works for X-Plane, FSX, Prepar3D, etc.). It’s a service outside of the MSFS ecosystem and technically works through external 3rd party applications running on your PC along any simulator app your using. All voice communication and other interactivity with VATSIM is done through those 3rd party apps (like vPilot), not the sim. Their interactivity with the sim is limited to:

  1. Reading your current position (lat, lng, altitude)
  2. Reading your radio frequencies and transponder code
  3. Injecting VATSIM traffic

Just like any other 3rd party app like this it will never work on consoles, just because of the simple fact they don’t support running multiple “user” applications at the same time and between-process communication.

Theoretically MS/Asobo could incorporate a VATSIM client inside the core sim, but this will never happen because of all the legal and practical issues surrounding it (licenses, support, security etc.).

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Well, just like Navigraph plugins for G1000 / G3000 are capable of working in Xbox by Navigraph allowing 3rd party developers to push it packaged with our airplanes, or by allowing us 3rd party developers to use their APIs in our EFBs. Some examples? our FSR500, FFX HJet, FFX Cirrus Jet, Inibuilds EFBs A300 with navicharts.

Theoretically, if VATSIM allows it / is willing, some tool could be made available to work on JavaScript which would allow 3rd party aircraft to push such plugins allowing the interaction with VATSIM. The Caveat would be the voice interaction not sure if microphones are allowed to work on Xbox, but keyboards are, so at least text interaction would be possible.

I think if VATSIM really would like to be on XBOX, they can, is just a matter of being willing… the MSFS SDK via Coherent, JS, node react + WASM is there to perform everything VPILOT does except for the Mic interaction of course. I am sure Microsoft would love to work on this if VATSIM presented the project to them for sure!.

My 2 cents,
Raul
CEO FSReborn

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Theoretically yes, but I don’t believe it’s currently possible with the JS API’s the sim is offering.
Can you take over the microphone? Inject traffic? Do arbitrary binary protocol network connections on random ports?
I’m assuming you can read the position (100%) and play sound (90%) + draw something on the screen using a sandboxed web view, but that’s about it.

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You can only do so much on an XBOX.

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As I said the SDK capabilities are there, you have to use a combination of SDK functionalities.

JS for server connection and traffic position.
JS for user interface and interactions, an in game panel would be the best.
WASM to inject traffic and it can communicate with .JS just fine.

I am using WASM to inject my own objects in FSR500, the fuel truck, the vehicles coming to the airplane, the cones, the GPU, etc. is all injected dynamically via WASM.

As I said, the MSFS SDK capabilities to do everything VPILOT does is there, except for the Microphone / voice interaction but I am sure Microsoft / Asobo could facilitate this via new SDK functionalities if required, as long as VATSIM devs works with them for sure.

Best,
Raul
CEO FSReborn

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What about network communication? Isn’t that limited to HTTP requests? I doubt they use that for voice.

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In hence why I am saying only the voice interaction is missing and VATSIM could work with Microsoft / Asobo to find the missing part of that puzzle.

R.

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The way I see it is, flight simming on console is still very much in its infancy. It is a ground breaking feat that at one time seemed impossible, who would have loved to be able to run FSX on an Xbox 360, I sure would! The pain I suffered trying to get even 20fps on my aging PC. :dizzy_face:

It’ll continue to get better and better I have no doubt. Opening up to Xbox has done wonders for the hobby in my opinion and something that was needed to help keep this niche title alive and well.

I wonder if it would be possible to have some kind of external device connected to console to allow 3rd party content to run just like it would on a PC, such as those mentioned above. A sandbox device if you will? My gaming chair isn’t big enough to explain the particulars but could be a consideration for the future?

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It is absolutely necessary to publicly acknowledge the great work FSReborn team does for Xbox users

A development company that takes into account the whole simmers (without distinction)

Thanks for the fantastic work Raul and whole FSReborn team

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Interesting bit of logic there. To me that’s akin to expecting Tesla to change their engine because the owners can’t install an aftermarket turbocharger.

The Xbox is what it is. Developers are limited by the brick wall of platform design.

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I think it would be very awesome to see Xbox users on Vatsim, that would probably bring a lot of people and with time more controllers to Vatsim.

I’m not in line with the “will never happen” argument here, if there is a will there is a way.

Maybe a Vatsim client can be integrated in some way in javascript and then a client can be run in a modest pc/laptop to provide voice communication, I’m sure some solution is possible if Microsoft and Vatsim want this to happen.

Maybe something to think about for MSFS 2024 ?

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Can I suggest you read my post again? It seems you missed some of the key points.

Mathijs Kok
PMDG

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