We need Force Feedback back!

If it’s the one I saw then it looks like a kit which you put together yourself. Unfortunately there are no reviews on it so there is no customer feedback to say whether it is any good or not. Not a positive sign really, at least to me :slightly_smiling_face:

Also it also doesn’t seem to mention any software either which may be required to drive it. Can’t see it just working by itself tbh so would want a bit of clarification before buying. No mention of any motors either to drive the stick :slightly_smiling_face:

I read this and did a bit of ‘googling’ but I think that the patent copyright on FF could be a bit of a minefield.

I think that some of the patents relating to FF might have lapsed but that there is a possibility at least of some (tens or hundreds??) of other patents still active which could also cover FF and might restrict a licence free FF joystick.

I am not convinced that it is really as clearcut as some of the guys on that forum think.

I’m not a patent lawyer (thank goodness!) so I could easily be wrong. Anyway, I think this one is a bit beyond my knowledge to comment much further.

Over to someone else I think with a bit more expertise in this field :slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face:

It is listed on Amazon. I have included a screen shot.
It is the VERY OLD MS FF Pro… Manufactured decades ago.
Doubt you would want that even if it was still in some dusty warehouse somewhere.
I used to have the Non-ForceFeedback version and it was a simple USB connection and worked with a variety of flight sims. I threw it away a few years ago because it was not built very well and gets unsteady and erratic after several years of use.

Ha … Thanks for the reply :slightly_smiling_face:

Wow, $73 for a used one? Phew …

I remember seeing these when they were new. In hindsight I should have bought a couple or so.

Might look at buying a Time Machine to make a few bucks. I’ll have a look on Amazon to see if they have one for sale :slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face:

Austin Meyer made a video about force feedback a while back. One of his comments was on how it was implemented, and not the hardware, but rather how the software drives the hardware. I believe he was reviewing one of the Brunner yokes. He pointed out that the vibration felt from an idling engine bared little resemblance to the RPM. It seemed to be a case of garbage in, garbage out.

Quite honestly, for my Yoko, what I would like to see is variable resistance on the bungy cords. So when you are at low speeds, you would have moving arms that would reduce the tension on the cords, making the yoke move easier, then as your airspeed builds these arms would tighten the cords, and make you use more effort to move the yoke, rather than the static feeling we have now.

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Hello,

If you want to have a discussion about force feedback, no problem. Regarding Wishlist, though, there are already two topics:

So, this is being moved to General Discussion.

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As I posted in another topic just a few days ago, force feedback is the thing I miss most since fsx. I agree it’s very immersive, and took me a while to get used to the tame non-ff joystick when I switched to XPlane. I’d love it to appear in fs2020.

Regarding which would come first, the hardware or the software, MS of course are in a position to do both, as they did before. If we can prove there is a market for it, they may take the hint. So vote for ff, and let’s try and get this to move up the wishlist.

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Perhaps we should use the term Haptic Feedback to encompass all of the experiences. The Xbox wireless controller already uses the inbuilt vibrator mechanism to provide haptic feedback for landings, taxiing on dirt runways, hitting obstacles, etc… The mechanism is clearly built into the system for capable controllers. I assume this topic has been addressed in Microsoft OEM conferences, but maybe a HW partner or MSFT PM for third-party peripherals can comment.

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I still have a Microsoft Sidewinder II Force Feedback Joystick, that I use with MSFS, with an addon.

Works GREAT – No going back. Haptic Feedback – does not come close !!!

When you are on AP, and you see the Joystick MOVE by itself as the plane climbs & banks, its amazing. And of course, the TRIMMING is correct …

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Which add on? I have a FF2 too and tried an add on a while ago, forgotten what it’s called, thought it was pretty awful though.

Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2

I have this exact model in pristine condition. It just uses a power supply for the feedback motors and a USB cable to connect to the computer. Nothing complicated, just plug and play. I tried it with MSFS and although it worked, the force feedback is non-functional. Fortunately it works perfectly with the excellent Condor 2 Soaring Simulator that I originally bought it for.

Pity about MSFS :frowning:

Yeah, what @BearsAreCool510 said…

What is this addon?

XPforce
.,…

Googling right now!

Is XPForce what you used? At only £9.95 it seems worth a go.

EDIT:
The download page says £9.95 but when you go to the store for the licence the price is actually £14.95. Still not bad and apparently it can be tried for free.

I did not realise that there has been a thread dedicated to this since Aug 2020.

I am just trawling through the 180+ messages before diving in.

Good point…am I dreaming or did Honeycomb mention that FF might be on their future radar???

Out of curiosity, did you actually look at the patent information?

It strikes me this Immersion Corp patent troll is a myth. It’s like at some point in the past someone on the internet asked why force feedback joysticks don’t exist and someone with half the facts replied blaming them and it has just spiraled out of control ever since with people perpetuating the same old wives tale.

Why do I say this?

Immersion Corp took Sony and Microsoft to court many years ago over “haptic feedback” in their console joypads. As a result of this, Microsoft settled out of court and bought a 10% share in the company allowing them to keep their joypads with vibration functionality. Meanwhile, Sony carried on fighting and launched the PS3 console with joypads that no longer used dual motor vibration.

This can all be verified across numerous media sources from 20 years ago.

The real kicker though when people try to blame Immersion Corp for the demise of the MSFFB2, aside from the fact that Microsoft had a 10% stake in the company, Microsoft held the patent for force feedback joysticks…

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5742278A/en

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Oh, man, I would soooo love to see Force Feedback Joysticks become a thing again. I still have my old Microsoft FFPro from back in the nineties, but, it’s got the old game connector. I’d have to figure out how to convert it to USB. I have the old Microsoft FF Wheels and pedals, too, that was so awesome with the first Need for Speed games and NASCAR.

The best part would be feeling the resistance with regards to trim. So you could actually trim by feel like a real plane. Thrustmaster just announced a whole line of new joysticks and yokes so maybe they’ve got something up their sleeve. We can hope.

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