Web-Based Flight Planner Auto-Generating Blatantly Miscalculated Flight Plan

[NixonRedgrave]

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ISSUE DESCRIPTION

Description of the issue: Web-based Flight Planner is auto-generating a blatantly miscalculated flight plan. Interestingly, this is inconsistent, as a similar flight plan generated yesterday was as expected.

If applicable, which aircraft is experiencing this issue:

[PC Only] Did you remove all your community mods/add-ons? If yes, are you still experiencing the issue?

FREQUENCY OF ISSUE

How often does this occur for you (Example: Just once, every time on sim load, intermittently)? I have only used this tool twice – both times entering the same origin, destination and using the same process to generate a flight plan. Yesterday, it worked as expected, today it did not.

REPRODUCTION STEPS

Please list clear steps you took in order to help our test team reproduce the same issue:

1. Use the web-based Flight Planner
2. Select the C208 Passengers
3. Set KPRB as Origin
4. Set KTVL as Destination
5. Click Auto-select for departure, approach and route
6. Observe result

YOUR SETTINGS

If the issue still occurs with no mods and add-ons, please continue to report your issue. If not, please move this post to the User Support Hub.

What peripherals are you using, if relevant:

[PC Only] Are you using Developer Mode or have you made any changes to it?

[PC, MSFS 2020 Only] Are you using DX11 or DX12?

[PC Only] What GPU (Graphics Card) do you use?

[PC Only] What other relevant PC specs can you share?

MEDIA

Please add a screenshot or video of the issue occurring.

This is the acceptable route auto-generated on 25NOV2024:

This is the unacceptable route auto-generated on 26NOV2024 (origin in blue, destination in red):

[END OF FIRST USER REPORT]

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Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
•

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
•

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
•

[NixonRedgrave]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
•

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
• I just did this again – create new FP, origin KPRB, destination KTVL and just clicked Auto-select for route and didn’t generate a departure or approach. It generated the same cuckoo flight plan to Montana and back. I’m able to replicate it, and it seems to be not related to me selecting a departure or approach, although it automatically added a departure and approach without my asking it to do so.

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:

[Michail71]

I see the same thing. I wonder if weather could be making for the differences.

I rarely use auto gen routes because I like to avoid class B and C airspaces for VFR flights. I like to stay off the radio! I’m not sure what real pilots would typically do.

I tried a few other routes, while not as bad it was doing things I’ve never seen in real life.

[PacificSet90456]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
• Yes. I was able to duplicate the problem using the same flight plan.

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
•

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
• Identical screenshot not added.

[SOUNSPECTRUM]

Hope this is the correct place to post this, but… I have massive issues with checkpoints not acknowledging for me. I went through the last point as seen in the screenshot, but didn’t activate, but mission panel moved on to the next point ok. Also whacky taxi checkpointing, especially in the helicopters? thanks. (Happened again on different route just now, I am officially done with 2024, till they make this a respectable title)

[A68yoSniper]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
•

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
•

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
• Yes, I am also from California and testing planning for the B-787. I have planned flights between Stockton and Sacrament to SFO. I find that you have to enter pretty much just the simplest route possible… add any arrivals and you get spaghetti like the above.

It would be helpful to have some good models for using the software. There are a couple on YouTube and they say use the defaults but does not work out well for me.

Also when it gets to reading into the AP I always have to edit in the AP because of discontinuities that are not on the planner. This one worked but with discontinuities and how come the flight is in orange and not purple?

I was able to fly this on the AP down to the CAT3 but reacquired a lot of careful monitoring. The AP VNAV is pretty hopeless.

Maybe i just need a good manual.

One more example, this one worked fine but when I try to reload it I get an error:

And this was not what I saved… junk added.

[A68yoSniper]

This AM I did one from Philly to Newark, my childhood stomping grounds… had to delete the departure, but otherwise worked OK.

I flew this OK with LNAV and VNAV to the LOC and it worked alright.

Slowly getting the hang of the AP.

[NixonRedgrave]

Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
•

Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
• I was just reading the Working Title Discord and they indicated a large list of updates to the web-based Flight Planner. I wanted to indicate, in spite of the updates, this flight plan still results in the bogus leg to/from Montana.

If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
•

[Bishop398]

Unfortunately after quite a few tries, I am unable to reproduce this issue. I’ve also tried selecting other runway combinations and I don’t ever get an auto-generated route with a leg going over Montana; the generated route looks to be quite direct.

Another one of our developers was also unable to reproduce the issue. Are there are other steps you are performing that have not been indicated here?

[NixonRedgrave]

How odd.

I am:

1. Opening the web planner via a tab in Edge on my laptop
2. Clicking Create New Flight Plan and confirming
3. Entering Origin KPRB (via the recently used airport list)
4. Entering Destination KTVL (same, via the recent list)
5. Clicking Auto-Route

The issue occurs.

I just replicated again, now, as I double-checked my process.

I have the C208 passenger selected as my aircraft and 10000’ for cruise.

Do you want me to clear all my cookies/data and start with a freshly cleaned out browser? I’ll wait on this in case you want me to retain anything that is contributing to the issue’s replication.

EDIT:

Okay, I opened an in-private window in Edge to test and it was able to generate a proper flight plan, without the unnecessary trip to Montana.

It looks like something is being cached that is, perhaps, affecting the planner even after you’ve pushed back-end updates to it?

Is there an automated way to circumvent that in the future?

EDIT2:

What is also strange is the very first time I used the tool for this flight plan it didn’t do this. However, all subsequent attempts it did. Again, keeping the planner open in the same tab the entire time.

[Bishop398]

@NixonRedgrave

It looks like something is being cached that is, perhaps, affecting the planner even after you’ve pushed back-end updates to it?

That’s quite odd indeed; we actually send no-cache headers to the client specifically for this reason. But browsers and caching is an age old problem that seems to frustrate users and developers 20 years on, still. It does seem that you still had some old code in the browser.

In Edge, CTRL+Click on the refresh button can sometimes clear sticky cache that the browser incorrectly is holding on to. Sometimes logging all the way out also helps (you can click on your avatar in the upper right to log out).

[NixonRedgrave]

I will keep an eye on this.

Since I have you here do you have any idea what is going on here?

Vastly Different Flight Plan Results from In-Sim EFB vs. Web-Based Flight Planner - User Support Hub / ATC, Traffic & NAVAIDs - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

[Bishop398]

The in-sim EFB uses the sim’s built-in auto-routing faculties, which we did not code, we just call the API for them (the same ones that create routes for you on the 2020 world map, though I understand there have been some improvements added). So unfortunately we would not be of any direct assistance on that one.

[NixonRedgrave]

Thank you for the explanation.

If I see this oddity (the bug this report is about, not the other topic) with the FP again, I’ll be sure to reach out to you on Discord.

Thank you for everything you and your team are doing, Matt!

[CharlieFox00]

That’s weird. Where did come up with LINGE as an exit for V113 when SPOOK or RICHY would suffice?

Interestingly, I tried building this. It gave me an arrival of runway 36 at TVL at first and built the route normally.

However, I forced it to route to a right visual approach for runway 18 and it gave me the same result as you, with an error to boot (V28 is co-located with V113 from LIN to FMG):

For whatever reason, I think that it’s looking a reasonable exit at RICHY and maybe rejecting it because of the high angle?

Weirdly, I deleted the route and forced it to run the suggested route again with a left visual pattern and it gave me a more reasonable route. But look at the mess of an approach to the pattern:

Changing it to a left-direct pattern immediately produces a reasonable result:

But re-routing it leaving in the left-direct entry and using the suggested route gives us the mess out to Montana again.

I think a lot of this is happening because the logic is trying to inject waypoints and patterns that aren’t part of the navdata, but it’s not hitting them well. Maybe there are some sharp turns it doesn’t like in the transition from the airway to the pattern?

That said, on an IFR flight into Tahoe, I’d file direct HETRY for the RNAV or SWR for the LDA, anyway.

[NixonRedgrave]

@Bishop398

Matt, take a look here at @CharlieFox00 post. He was just able to replicate it.

[Nikita]

While not exactly the scenarios discussed above, what concerns me is that 24 is generating routes and waypoints that I did not ask for, even on simple point A to point B with a single fix or VOR in-between. When I define one of these short hops, either in the web based planner or in sim, what gets downloaded to avionics is a bunch of stuff that I did not flight plan for. Then the G1000NXi is full of who know where/what that I have to ignore and just tune the single VOR myself (which is no problem but does not bode well for the kind of longer cross-country examined here).

[Bishop398]

@Nikita

When I define one of these short hops, either in the web based planner or in sim, what gets downloaded to avionics is a bunch of stuff that I did not flight plan for.

Do you have an example and some screenshots of this? What goes into the avionics should be exactly what appears in the in-sim EFB planner app route page.

[Nikita]

Unfortunately no, I have not documented any yet. But from memory just this morning, in the C172 from KABE to KTEB via SBJ VOR, the G1000NXi had a few fixes which appeared to be a fragment of a nonsensical flight plan with a few discontinuities such that the Garmin didn’t even draw a magenta course line. The purpose of this morning’s flight was to see if scenery looked better without add-ons streamed, it didn’t, but the flight planning boo boos are becoming a thing.

[Bishop398]

@NixonRedgrave

Matt, take a look here at @CharlieFox00 post. He was just able to replicate it.

I still am unable to replicate this using Right, Left, Right Direct, or Left Direct.

@CharlieFox00

Maybe there are some sharp turns it doesn’t like in the transition from the airway to the pattern?

The programmatic route generator does not consider turn angle, so that would not factor into this issue.