[BUG LOGGED] Shimmering/AA downgrade since SU5 (in-game, not menus/overlays)

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Aye still broken for WU6 which is a shame as just before SU5 the VR I had got nailed and was super enjoying the sim, using it somewhat regularly even getting some rare mp flying in which friends when schedules matched however now we are all back to DCS and IL2 for our VR flying fix.

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In MSFS’s case, it’s just the AA implementation of the game. Nothing is wrong with the OS or drivers.

Many games using TAA have shimmering issues. That’s the nature of the algorithm.

Agreed. That’s typically the only solution for modern games with ineffective AA implementations.

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I finally made some progress on this issue. Not a fix, not even really a full workaround, just progress:

GTX 1080 AMD 5600X 32gb ram HTV Vive Steam VR 1080p monitor

In game: TAA 100, supersampling max, anisotropic 16x
Steam VR: resolution 80

In the Nvidia control settings:
I increased DSR to 1.5 and maxed smoothness.
I enabled Nvidia sharpening and maxed it out.
I enabled FXAA.
I enabled AA Enhance and maxed it out.
I enabled AA Transparency and maxed it out.

With these settings the shimmering was effectively eliminated (in VR). But there was a big cost to performance. I had been frame limiting at 30fps after SU5, but now I have to drop it to 22.5 to eliminate stutter. And that’s in the relatively low density area around KCHO where I’ve done all my AA testing.

I hope to do some more testing after work. Hopefully not all of the settings listed above are necessary to eliminate the shimmers, since I’d love to get back to 30fps. For those with more powerful GPUs, however, I hope this gives you a usable work around or at least a path for further experimentation.

That can be done to combat the problem, but that’s just throwing more pixels at it… it shouldn’t be necessary to do in the first place, that’s the reality of the issue.

I still think it’s just a Windows 10 bug that was left unchecked, since so many other games are affected as well.

Time will tell what comes, in the meantime let your fellow simmers know of this bug.

I’m inclined to agree, especially since I’ve noticed the downgrade in multiple titles (No Man’s Sky and Skyrim VR). I also tried rolling back my nvidia driver and the shimmer was still there in all titles. So the common denominator may well be windows. My post was just about providing some folks a way to maaaybe fly without getting a headache while we wait (and wait) for an actual correction. :slight_smile:

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All this talk of other titles being affected too… A couple of days ago I did a quick flight in Aerofly FS2 and it also seemed much more jaggy than I remember it being, especially buildings, which are also the worst problem in MSFS.

I thought I was imagining things and haven’t played it in a while, thought maybe I’m over sensitized to the issue now. But I swear it’s gotten worse too. But the problems in MSFS definitely started with SU5, it was fine before.

Where there any Windows updates that coincided so closely with SU5?

We need a fix for this!!

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Well this can’t be good, they can’t seem to replicate the AA issue on their end or are unable to see it perhaps?

AA in the menu has been “Started” however but this is for VR… I wonder if that’s fixed, will it fix the in-game AA automatically? At least that confirms there is definitely something wrong here…

The team asks for more details, perhaps send in your screenshots of bad AA?

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Asobo cannot reproduce the AA downgrade since simupdate 5? I can not believe it. I have no more hope for the sim…

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How do we send them screenshots? @CptLucky8 has great through the lens footage here: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/through-the-lens-footage-of-the-aa-shimmering-in-su5/

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That’s the best example I’ve seen yet!

I had sent feedback through feedback hub as well but Microsoft engineers are being hard to work with…

I titled one feedback as “AA Not Working in Games” and I was told to provide more detail.
So I created another thread and named it “AntiAliasing bug in Windows - Please look into this MIcrosoft” and I was given the official response that I provided too many/multiple problems… Like seriously!?

Like come on guys… it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what the problem is here…it’s simple!

Fix the Anti-Aliasing… Check all dependencies that cause this feature to work… it’s not that hard!

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My best recommendation would be to post here and also on “Feedback Hub”.

Follow these steps at the link below:

https://aka.ms/fullscreenoptimizationsfeedback

“Our goal is to create the best possible gaming experience”… Fix the AA then… :angry:

Edit: Anyone want to start a signed petition online?

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I was spending already 20 minutes providing my feedback for the latest snapshot, and not just on this topic, but I canceled my post and won’t post anything more. There are too many things in the snapshot which are not logical too me, and I’ll only illustrate a few:

I prefer stopping there for now.


*Even if Alex Vlachos ex SteamVR R&D lead now WMR R&D lead has a new trick coming up for WMR soon, and he is brilliant with this tech definitely, what about SteamVR and Occulus users?

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Is this only related to the VR AA or also the 2D AA?
I really can’t understand why they are not able to see it.
Just hop in a plane, fly around and look outside the window.
My only guess is, that Asobo doesn’t see the shimmering as an AA related issue but rather as a independent problem. Maybe we should clarify that the shimmering in the distance is the problem.

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This is unbelievable and outrageous!!
After waiting for weeks after the release of SU5 without proper communication, repeated delays of development updates and countless posts in the forums incl. screenshots and videos, we now receive an update snapshot stating that the most severe problem in the sim since the last update is „unable to reproduce“ and therefore just being ignored? I invite you to come over to my house and I will gladly „reproduce“ the issue for you!
Instead, the solution that you are now going with is „ignore and move on“ ?! This is completely insulting to everyone who is facing this issue and basically tells us that you believe the fourth biggest issue in VR for the community just doesn’t exist.
I built a 2,500€ PC and bought a 600€ VR Headset just to play Microsoft Flight Simulator, and you „break“ it with SU5 and them just tell us that the major issues you create don’t exist?!
And what doesn’t exist doesn’t need to be fixed right? Well it does exist and a hell of a lot of people don’t fly anymore because of it.

I have been eagerly awaiting the updated feedback snapshot for 3 weeks now, and today I search the latest blog post only for an update to this single issue and what do I find… „unable to reproduce“…. Release „N/A“.

Fix the sim!

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Yup, I am just as outraged as you are about this… it’s basically broken the immersion factor out of our hobby!

Ever since the pandemic started, there probably hasn’t been enough QA Testers working on these issues now.

I for one am not happy one bit about the Xbox merger with the PC ecosystem.

If my PC that I’ve spent thousands of dollars on just to use this $120 piece of software has been downgraded to match a $500 console. I have one; received a faulty product, and two; my PC has been turned into a console! Basically a brick now since I don’t even really use it.

Everyone knows legal issues can arise when you publish faulty products… and especially if the sole intent here is to simply make money and not put heart into it. This is where you clearly end up at.

“Fix the sim!”

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After spending quite a big amount of money over RTX 3080 TI in the aim of having a fluid 4K experience with MSFS, devoloprers come up with they are not able to fix 4K / AA and shimmering problems because they are not able to reproduce problems regarding these. In the aim of XBOX optimisation you messed up PC side and still persisting to keep this way. Community is going crazy on some topics/bugs/lack of features but there is no real responds except the devolopment updates which is only for relaxing people slightly. Please keep ignoring some aspects of the community and see what happens next. Gamers and gamer related features, improvements and DLC’s may bring money in short term but simmers will be your solid future if you want to stay long term ahead. Please think this again. I undertand the commercial points and accept the issues at some level but isn’t it enough after a year ? Focus on sim core and fix the shimmer which was not an issue before SU5. Do you think are we lying ? After all those SS’s and videos can you easily escape stating unable to produce the problem ? Do we seem a bit stupid from other side ?

Kind regards.

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Keep the simmers happy and the future of the sim is secured.

I personally don’t care about the landmarks or eye candy extras of the sim such as WU’s…

What I care about is being able to fly properly and simulate the aircraft first and foremost… We are beginning to reach Microsoft Flight airspace now… Do you really want to go through that fiasco again Microsoft and lose trust within the sim community?

You’ve already released the simulator to Xbox, the damage is done now, not like you can cancel it now. In terms of optimization you will now have to work to separate the Xbox simulator graphics from the PC’s graphics in some form or another to resolve this AA issue.

It really ticked me off when Microsoft had NVIDIA release DCH drivers for Windows simply to satisfy their store Apps compatibility but ruining how other applications worked and gaming quality…

It’s a fiasco I tell ya!

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@Jummivana

We all don’t know if it’s actually the broken antialiasing. We are not developers.

But the fact is that there has been so much more shimmering since Simupdate 5. This can be seen especially in the buildings in the distance and in VR. I don’t have to send screenshots etc. for it. Start the Sim, fly a lap in VR and especially look at the buildings in the distance. The buildings shimmer like hell since Simupdate 5. Before the update, it was much, much better. The shimmer is also present in 2d, but it is more noticeable in VR.

Whether the shimmer is due to the poorer antialiasing is just a guess of mine. It could possibly also be due to reflections or the like. A short feedback from the developers would be very good here.

We are simply concerned with removing the shimmer. Please fix the shimmer bug. And you must have noticed the shimmer.

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We’re not devolopers or experienced engineers in software area. All we do is to state if there is any visual problems. So I don’t understand why we need to prove in detail if there is something unusual by visuals. As you mentioned they just need to run the sim on high resolution with full render scale and see there is a visual degradation by shimmer or whatever the name is. This issue is quite clear to exist on most of the systems and we need to hear better plans how to resolve it rather than ignoring the problem. If all those visual issues we have been experiencing is related with DX12 then please announce this clearly and state all those will gone after DX12 impl. or if no then find particular ways to fix each visual issue. Clouds - AA Shimmer - Shadows - Reflections and similar ones. All these are major things which kills immersion significantly. They are well below average and sometimes become unacceptable. I don’t understand how we end up in such state ? Major bugs are being delayed over and over ? A year. A full year and we still have same bugs even some of them being tagged as fixed by release notes ? Why ? How ? There might be some gamers quite happy about the visuals we have but if you are plalning long terms let me inform you that real simmers not happy by lack of major features and repetitve ignored fixes. I don’t care the Top Gun or similar DLC’s, I care sim core and major features first. Before the world updates why don’t we have better clouds or realistic night lighting ?

Kind regards.

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@Jummivana

Here is a post from Captain Lucky that clearly shows the problem of the shimmer in a video.

Asobo watch the videos in the link and you will see the shimmer at the buildings clearly. You cannot say that the Shimmer error is not reproducible.

And please give up a short feedback that this issue (Shimmer bug since Simupdate 5) will be fixed in the future.

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