Hello, recently I started having an issue with the C172, wherein the autopilot is on at startup, in roll mode, and turns the ailerons full right. None of the mapped commands seem to work to turn off the AP. I have the honeycomb alpha yoke and bravo throttle, and have tried remapping the ‘auto pilot’ button on the bravo to turn on the AP, and the red button on the R side of the yoke to turn it off, nothing. I disabled ‘better bravo lights’ thinking that might be the problem, but didn’t work. Doesn’t seem to happen in other aircraft. I tried the keyboard toggles as well, those did not work. I searched through controls for the other peripherals, no other mappings to the autopilot on/off seem to exist. Anybody else had this issue? Thanks!
A quick way to find if it is related to the Bravo or not is to have a test flight with the Bravo disconnected.
If you still have the issue, it’s not the Bravo causing it.
If you don’t, then double check the bindings on the Bravo.
Have found this works for me (every time) withe the C172 KAP140 AP
Make sure the AP is NOT on when you spawn, or are on the Ground. !!
Even if you later turn it off, before taxi or takeoff, it may well get “locked up in a full deflection mode”, and as soon as you turn it on, cause the plane to do UNDESIRABLE and UNEXPECTED things.
If you do find it doing this, Turn off AP, Active pause, and reload the plane (even when in the air), with the Load Aircraft in the DEV console, then ASAP turn off Active pause.
Stabilize the plane in flight , and now when you turn on the AP, it should be stable
It seems you may not be alone.
This one was posted just yesterday.
I don’t believe the poster of that has found an answer either.
Do you have any other addons in your community folder?
If so, empty it and then try.
Try different USB ports than you are using.
Keep one further away from the other.
I have seen a post in here where a very similar problem was solved that way.
This is what will happen when applying control input with AP engaged in MSFS. Completely wrong implementation:
Umm that’s kind of natural and it happens in flight as if you try to turn (say with the rudder) with AP switched on it will always try to correct and that’s always most apparent with the yoke … it’s actually just fighting back.
Good call, I did just unplug the Bravo, and the problem does not recur. I re-looked at the mappings for the bravo, the only autopilot on/off mapping I have is for the AP button to turn the AP on (i changed it from the default as being mapped to “toggle AP” as that was where it was when i first started having the issue). Weird… I’ve had the bravo for a while and previously successfully flew the 172 without this happening.
No, not really… This is not how it works in real life. What you are saying about AP correcting for slip is something entirely different. You are talking about two different axis, when moving around one axis with the autopilot in control, it will obviously use the two remaining axis to correct. I am talking about you and the autopilot applying input to the same set of controls at the same time.
In real life you physically can’t move the controls with the autopilot engaged. The force you apply on the controls is sensed by the autopilot servo’s and when its exceeds x limit (for example 40 DaN) the autopilot will disengage completely. In other words Asobo should ignore any inputs below lets say 50% joystick deflection with autopilot engaged. >50% the autopilot should disengage and the control should synch with your joystick. The same would happen if you would disengage the AP this way in real life.
Apart from that, this doesn’t seem to be the problem. When applying a roll input with the AP engaged the flight controls (ailerons in this case) seem to follow the joystick position at which point the AP is just moving a dumm.y control wheel in opposite direction so its not counteracting or fighting back anything at all. In real life both you and the autopilot servo’s are applying input to the same set of controls. The only way to realistically simulate this is by ignoring manual control input entirely below AP disconnect threshold.
Also the AP should disengage at a certain g-loading, stall warning activation or manual trim input instead of pulling the wings off or otherwise pulling and trimming the aircraft into a stall or spin.
Thanks as I always thought AP disengaged after a certain amount of travel. I wonder how easy it would be for Asobo to change this behaviour and if it’s even worth it without force feedback?
Yes, instead of certain amount of travel its a certain amount of force in real life. The controls won’t move as long as the AP is engaged.
That would be a serious safety flaw. Autopilot servos are chosen and setup to provide enough power to control the aircraft but not so much that the pilot cannot override.
Partly true, when the autopilot wouldn’t disengage in a failure situation you might be able override the AP servos but this would require a lot of strength. The point is, I have never flown an aircraft equipped with AP where you can move the yoke with the autopilot engaged. The yoke simply doesn’t move until sufficient force is applied to trip the autopilot offline. I have flown C173 G1000 with AP, other than that different turboprops and jets. In any case the MSFS implementation is a joke, when applying input on the roll axis with AP engaged the yoke will move in opposite direction, thats just plain wrong.
Not suggesting for a minute the sim has this correctly modelled but there is no partly about it. You must be able to override the AP servos but granted it will take more than normal control forces to override.
I’m not sure about this requirement, I have flown certain types of aircraft where I wouldn’t be able to overrule the AP should it decide to remain engaged. On the ATR for example you can disconnect the AP by applying a force of 40 DaN on the pitch axis, however, you can’t disconnect the AP by applying a force on the roll axis. I have tried it once, I can’t overrule it. Neither is this really an issue, there are many ways to disconnect the AP, cutting power to the servo’s if needed. Worst case disconnecting the left and right controls, the servo is usually only installed on one of two systems. On a small single engine aircraft I do understand that statement.
This thread relates to the C172.
Hardly a joke unless you’ve found a way how to exert e.g. 40 DaN on a simulator’s yoke or a joystick. I just think it excellent that a disconnect is even modelled.
The solution is so so simple! They have (correctly) modeled the AP disconnecting above a certain joystick input, below that threshold manual control input needs to be ignored, problem solved!
What disconnect is modelled? You mean the yoke disconnecting from the ailerons? Thats a big mistake, totally unrealistic. In real life, you and the autopilot are manipulating the same set of controls.
What I meant with disconnecting flight controls is disconnecting the left and right controls. Usually (on bigger aircraft) you can disconnect the control wheels in an emergency (stuck control). Then the left yoke controls the left elevator or left aileron while the right yoke controls the right side.
And this is exactly why this is not being fixed, people think its correctly modelled, it won’t get any votes or attention. For a real world pilot this bug is the most laughable implementation of any system in MSFS.
Thanks for the responses, I think we ended up arguing a different issue, I cannot cause the errant autopilot I’m experiencing to disengage through any means, including trying to counter its inputs. It must be somehow related to the bravo since unplugging it solved the issue. Doesn’t occur in other planes. As was noted above, it seems that at least someone else has a similar issue.
Sorry, can’t help you with that. When applying sufficient control input the AP does not disengage? Is that button on your yoke sending continuous AP engage commands or something? What about removing AP engage / disengage bindings all together?
This is the other bug we are talking about.
Did you go into the sim Control Options and see what commands are tied to the Bravo for Autopilot master?
There are several commands that influence the autopilot master switch.
Toggle Autopilot Master,
Toggle Disengage Autopilot,
Autopilot On,
Autopilot Off,
Set Autpilot Disengage
In the Control Options, you can also “search by input” by pressing the bravo’s button, and see what command(s) the sim has it tied to.