A photorealistic game… Wich runs FLUID at 60 fps, just,
like, and much more importantly, DCS.
Also completely agree! They keep releasing new features while the very BASIC and MOST IMPORTANT issue, the lack of fluid movement, is not resolved.
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this problem is solved by just setting where to departure, and leave arrival empty, everything is fine, the fps is good now and gpu can have a much higher utilisation.what a terrible bug!!!
Makes no difference… SSSSSSSTUUUUUUters no matter what…
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Maybe changing your keyboard would be a good starting point 
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Hi everyone,
So i have read through and played catchup with so many comments and it seems no further along to getting reliable decent performance?
Very frustrating. I had given up with the sim and probably won’t get back into it just yet as its just not fun.
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Like everything else in life, it depends who you talk to.
Some people think the performance is good, others not so. My own personally take is that the 2d performance is really good (much better than X-Plane 11) but that the VR experience although not bad still needs quite a bit more optimisation and refinement
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Could the fact that the CPU seems to be the limiting factor in performance be not about it’s ability to do graphical math but the fact that a simulation that is based on real time data being downloaded from the internet to decide what to draw, puts additional strain on that CPU to handle that task, something a game is not going to have to deal with? What happens to that CPU when there is some interruption in that networked data? How does the CPU deal with that? I’d think that is a huge programming burden considering all that you’re loading up for tasks.
So here’s what I’m talking about. Let’s just assume these steps happen in your computer to create a frame.
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I somehow doubt that flight sim is grabbing just a single frame worth of photogrammetric data from the ASOBO servers. The request for that packet most likely contains information about your physical location, the amount of zoom in your view, time of day, season, the direction you are traveling, your speed (in case it wants to cache a few seconds ahead of your current path), your orientation. That back and forth is interfacing with all the drivers and hardware that give you internet connectivity, checks for dropouts. Remember that in all of this part there is a natural latency just based on what’s between you and those servers. (Try jamming music some time between you and someone located 6000 miles away. Your sound, no matter how good your hardware rig, will not be exactly in synch just becomes of the speed of light). Some people have much more direct and closer access to servers and will have better results than someone distant or someone who’s link to those servers has multiple hops to get there. Caching can obviously help with some of this but also realize that any cache is also continually being updated based on where you’re flying. None of that task is being done by your GPU.
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The CPU is also handling all the basic GIS tasks that must be done for a sim, understanding the terrain map that is viewable and keeping track of all the file handling as to which texture goes over what hill and valley. It must decide which objects it can see and must be accessed along with basic information about all of them. Your GPU can’t help with that housekeeping part.
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Interrupts on your CPU are also parsing through all the controls hooked up to your computer, looking for mouse, keyboard, rudder pedal, yoke, controller changes that could completely alter the info that you are receiving. Your GPU helps not one bit in this task.
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The CPU is also processing the sound and music, any real world ATC and traffic you’ve chose, real world weather or simply the generation of all those things.
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I think people forget that while all this is going on Windows is still running. Gamers tend to strip as much functionality as they can while running games and sims but you can only turn so many things off. CPU cycles are dealing with all of it. Tons of those functions also deal with the network as well adding to latency.
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If all the info was received that was asked for, the CPU then needs to essentially compose the info into a basic graphical construct. This involves floating point math functions that form the instructions for the GPU to actually draw the 3D graphics. It has to pass once again all that info about light sources, object structure, textures, vertices. In a way your GPU has the easy part if this info coming into it is complete. Its tasks are pretty much constant. For some given input the frame gets rendered exactly the same each time. There are no variables. The speed and architecture of the graphics card pretty much follows along with its price.
So yes all of you out there with killer rigs that run games at 120 FPS are frustrated with anything other than blistering speed in flight sim but we are asking our CPU’s to do the near impossible to have all that above stuff happen 60 times per second. Those games essentially have the world they represent pre-programmed. In a sim getting info dynamically, one tiny blip in any of those tasks and the CPU is falling behind and won’t get the info to your GPU fast enough. That’s simply physics.
We all should certainly challenge Asobo to continually improve things but always do so with the realization that we’re pushing things to the limit.
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and of course, if you look at these forums, members are also demanding those other features be added. I have lots of flights where I have very fluid movement and my rig is nowhere near top of the line. I’ve seen improvements in many of the areas I fly over. Some of the big cities with 3000 buildings slow things down a bit of course but I had a flight the other day at sunset in the Grand Canyon with rainstorms and lightning that was just stunning and perfect. One of the most beautiful experiences I ever had on a computer game or sim. I think tons of people are enjoying themselves on the sim just fine and Asobo is trying to balance that dynamic.
Very funny…
Very nice your long explanation…
But I have tried to download a WHOLE very big region in the manual cache
all three qualities high medium and low, and after disabling the online feature,
tried to fly ONLY in that region. The result is the same: Stutters, no matter what.
Barely OK with the Cessnas, and much worse with all the other planes.
There are simply so many possible points of failure that can happen with complex code and it just strikes me that we can’t rule out that there is something in your local setup that causes your stutters. Just having killer hardware is no guarantee that the components and operating system play together well when hit with complicated programming in a major multi-tasking environment. I just see too many other posts on the forums from people with only marginal systems that seem to be having positive experiences. I had noticeable stutters when I began using MSFS but I don’t now unless I’m in some city where there are literally thousands of buildings and objects that have to be rendered and even then the planes are basically flyable and the graphics stunning. My CPU is not top of the line and I have one of the new 3060ti graphics cards but even before I replaced my old RX580, I had decent flights.
Manual cache is a whole other issue. From what I’ve read we have zero evidence that works at all and could even cause issues. The entry system for it has improved but is still horrible work to set up.
I am not discounting your challenges to Asobo. They should of course be tweaking their graphical engine to get better and better performance but please have some sense of the enormity of the task.
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There are at least two distinct reasons for what is generally referred to as “stuttering”.
One has to do with the CPU being temporarily unable to feed data to the GPU fast enough. This shows itself as longer, non-rhythmical pauses. The underlying causes include programs running in the background and delayed data loading from the storage device or the internet.
Another is caused by synchronization problems between the GPU’s frame rendering frequency and the monitor’s ditto. Some call them “micro-stutters”. Often these can be reduced or eliminated via tweaking in-game and/or driver settings.
Personally, I solved the second issue by restricting FPS to 60 in the NVidia drivers, although my G-sync monitor can run at 240Hz.
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I rule out that there is something in my local setup that causes stutters based on the
fact that the other simulator, DCS, with a complexity of the planes superior to MSFS
and granted, a lesser complexity of the scenery, runs flawlessly. 60 FPS @ 4k maxed out.
And so do at least a half a dozen games, like for example RDR2, with dozens of NPC’s, light sources,
volumetric clouds… MSFS stutters even with clear skies, no traffic, and even with the Cessna and lowest settings.
Glat that you are not discounting my challenges to Asobo. They should indeed be tweaking their graphical engine to get far performance…
I do have some sense of the enormity of the task, though other developers had the same task and in my opinion resolved it in a far better way than Asobo…
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I forgot…
(To be watched @ 4K 2160P 60. Sorry, a bit long). I have renounced to blend-in an FPS counter, because this is not about FPS, but rather about what a PC Flight Simulator worth of its name should do: Giving the felling of flight trough a fluid movement, and bring correct representations, both visually and technically, of the planes themselves, and the effects that wind, altitude, rain, damage etc. has on said planes. If a photorealistic landscape of the whole world with all the eye candy, giraffes and flamingos included is also possible, welcome, but not necessary. And this as long as it does not negatively impact the fluid movement.
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allways the same video… its a bit borring… like stutters… 
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The only thing that is boring and extremely annoying are the stutters…
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And… If you say it is boring…
Here is he Challenge, can you make a video like the - -boring - one I did, and of course with the same 4k quality at 60 FPS, showing that MSFS can run in the same fluid manner as DCS does?
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I already did 
… but of course I not own a 3080 and so, I can show you ony in MSFS 50 , in DCS 40-60 , in Prepare3D 15-70 and in Xplane 25-60 fps… sorry for that.
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@AC52399 Here is maybe a poor attempt at it but I’d like having your point of view on this one:
NB: there are at least 6 to 8 noticeable stutters in this video but it should be much better now, compared to when this video was taken (thanks to changes in drivers, config, etc…). It runs better now with nearly no stutters on the same computer it was taken (I just didn’t want to take a new video).
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